Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
11-21-2011, 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post

This is the setup you want for maximum PVE damage and survivability with an escort:

3x DHC, 1x Quantum up front
3x turrets rear

Aegis kit or Borg engines/deflector + Aegis shields

For the fleet escort OR Siege destroyer (both of which I've been testing and you might run into me using them in-game, especially the Siege destroyer which is awesome for PVE BTW):

Eng consoles: Mk XI rare Neutronium alloy, Mk XI rare EPS, Mk XI rare Shield capacity console
Sci consoles: Borg console, Biofunction OR another console of your choice (put the custom ship consoles here, like the new tier 2 escort console)
Tac consoles: 3x Mk XI rare consoles of said weapon type, 1x quantum console

Cmdr tac: Tac team I, Canon Scatter Volley I, Torp spread III (or torp spread II, scat volley II), Attack Pattern Omega III
Lt. Cmdr tac: Tac team 1, Torp Spread II, Canon scatter volley II
Sci: Transfer shield strength I, Hazard emitters II
Lt. Eng: Emergency Power to shields I, Reverse shield polarity I
Ensign eng: Emergency power to weapons I

Device slots: Use the re-usable Devidian defensive item in one slot, and a turret in the other (or maybe shield devices if you are worried about defense).

Power levels: Put your weapon power to 90, shield power as high as possible, and engine/aux to as low as possible. Your weapon power will NEVER run low with all cannons firing, I have no idea where these concerns about power levels are coming from I've never had any issues.
First line of this quote means you are off to a bad start.

You have no idea what I or anyone else wants so don't assume you do.

Secondly your bridge officer powers leave a bit to be desired. As most of the new STFs are single target based you have an unnecessary amount of AOE skills meaning you are missing out on single target dps. You are also running AP:O III instead of AP:B III despite the damage buff nerf AP:O recieved. This makes the other people on your team hate you.

I also wonder how many people would agree with running 90 weapon power and relying on EPtW to get you to the cap.

If you had been paying attention to this thread you would know that a lot of the discussion has been about B:TSSS III and possible outside-the-box builds. The fact you run the same setup as 90% of other escort pilots diminishes your argument even further.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
11-21-2011, 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korhil
First line of this quote means you are off to a bad start.

You have no idea what I or anyone else wants so don't assume you do.

Secondly your bridge officer powers leave a bit to be desired. As most of the new STFs are single target based you have an unnecessary amount of AOE skills meaning you are missing out on single target dps. You are also running AP:O III instead of AP:B III despite the damage buff nerf AP:O recieved. This makes the other people on your team hate you.

I also wonder how many people would agree with running 90 weapon power and relying on EPtW to get you to the cap.

If you had been paying attention to this thread you would know that a lot of the discussion has been about B:TSSS III and possible outside-the-box builds. The fact you run the same setup as 90% of other escort pilots diminishes your argument even further.
Although I don't agree with some of the details of his build (in an Escort I'd never run less than 100 weapons power, I want to be as close to 125 as possible at all times), his using a commonly used build is testament more to the utility of that layout; 3 DHCs and 3 turrets is impressive forward firepower that tears through NPCs with ease so despite it being a common setup it makes it no less valid.

B:TS3 is probably a little overkill for NPCs, most seem to run at 50 power to all systems leaving B:TS2 just as capable of dropping shields. For shield stripping, ideally Tyken's will be in there somewhere although preferably not on an Escort (I have seen it though, unfortunately). The revamped Tyken's with the stacking power drain is a powerful ability and is brutally effective against Borg cubes which tend to move very slowly, if at all as they sit in the middle of the anomaly waiting for there systems to go offline.

I have to question the utility of B:TS? anyway as unless you get the Cube in the first pass or have a well flown Escort to capitalise on the lack of shields you're just going to be left with a Cube with low hull and full shields that you'll have to burn through anyway. Although a Cube on a normal STF will likely pop on the first attempt the Elite Cube's are much more stout and if you're in a low DPS group or with multiple Cruiser's you're going to be burning through those shields anyway.
I'd imagine a pair BO3 is going to be just as effective with the added benefit of being able to be used more often with the shorter cooldown and able to deal a lot of damage against both hull and shields. With a Sci this would be a nice use of BO as SS is still a potent hull debuff that can be stacked with AP:Beta to maximise the damage from the BO strike.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
11-21-2011, 02:39 PM
You raise a good point. If I decide not to take Target Shields Subsystem at all it means I don't have to take a beam weapon.

I suppose the choice is between 3x DHC and 1x Torp or 3x DHC and 1x DBB.

From a simple dps point of view a torpedo launcher is never going to be as good as an energy weapon. Sure HY III makes for pretty lights but it doesn't really have more damage potential than B:O III and when a special skill isn't active torpedoes have pretty poor dps.

I tested the energy drain with 3x DHC, 1x DBB and 3x Turrets. Base 123 + siege mode = 133. The lowest the power level dropped to was about 75 which is still pretty good.

Then again the siege destroyer has a built in B:O III that doesn't drain 50 power. Maybe 4x DHCs would work. Problem then is you struggle to fill your bridge officer abilities with anything useful due to GCDs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
11-21-2011, 02:48 PM
I'm still a fan of ol'standby.
2 DHCs
1 DBB
1 torp

THY3/BO3/CRF3 combo is nice in a Qin
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
11-21-2011, 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korhil
Secondly your bridge officer powers leave a bit to be desired. As most of the new STFs are single target based you have an unnecessary amount of AOE skills meaning you are missing out on single target dps. You are also running AP:O III instead of AP:B III despite the damage buff nerf AP:O recieved. This makes the other people on your team hate you.
Single target DPS is irrelevant in the new STF's. Whether I'm targeting multiple probes, raptors or BoP's in Cure, or multiple spheres and transfer conduits in Infected, 90%+ of the time I'm hitting multiple targets that need to be hit. The only time this might be useless is against the Tactical Cubes or the Romulan dreadnaught, but even against the gates in Khitomer accord its usefull since I can hit the probes coming in through the gate along with the gate itself. The important thing is that I can kill ENTIRE groups of probes/spheres at a time VERY quickly.

As for Omega vs. Beta, Beta doesn't have the anti-Tractor beam ability (LIFE SAVER versus the Borg) and it doesn't have the damage resist either. Beta is great against the big targets, but 90% of the time in STF's you aren't shooting the large single targets so its useless.

Quote:
I also wonder how many people would agree with running 90 weapon power and relying on EPtW to get you to the cap.
At weapon power 90, my total weapon power is already up to 115+ I have the red-matter capacitor too. The EPtW is only because of the damage % increase and having the left over engineering skill. Engineering team is what I used to use, but its useless when using Tactical Team constantly.

Quote:
If you had been paying attention to this thread you would know that a lot of the discussion has been about B:TSSS III and possible outside-the-box builds. The fact you run the same setup as 90% of other escort pilots diminishes your argument even further.
Targeting Shields is good for Cruisers and Science ships, but for escorts and especially in the STF's its not worth it.

Why? The gates don't have shields, nor do the other static targets. And if you have a high-DPS build like I have, the amount of shields a target has are irrelevant as they are down in a second or two.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
11-21-2011, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korhil
Problem then is you struggle to fill your bridge officer abilities with anything useful due to GCDs.
Thats pretty much the biggest problem with non-standard escort builds.

I've even run 2x Hargh'pengs up front for fun with an Advanced Escort for fun in Ker'rat, and because those torpedos don't use skills you wind up with 3 attack patterns with shared cool downs

I also want to note I usually run a 2xDHC, 1x DBA, 1x Torp with the Defiant and target shields I or FAW I as the 3rd ensign skill, but with the STF's I found running Attack Pattern Delta was good with the Defiant (also for the Klingon Raptors) because it gives you a really nice defensive resist skill to save your *** while Omega or Beta are in cooldown.


Note: Torpedos are important in PVE due to the high critical hits. Even with the changes to Spread, you still can get hits of 20,000+ with individual torpedo's and because it hits 3 or 4 times now (3 with spread II, 4 with spread III, same as high yield) it will punch through shields faster and actually one-shot the small probes with just torpedos.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
11-22-2011, 04:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post
Note: Torpedos are important in PVE due to the high critical hits. Even with the changes to Spread, you still can get hits of 20,000+ with individual torpedo's and because it hits 3 or 4 times now (3 with spread II, 4 with spread III, same as high yield) it will punch through shields faster and actually one-shot the small probes with just torpedos.
Maybe if you are a tac and running under AP:A.

Seriously, if you actually look at Attack Pattern Alpha its such a crazy skill. A complete crutch for players who would normally put out low dps. Damage bonus, crazy good crit chance bonus, crazy good crit severity bonus and even a damn good turn rate bonus for 30 seconds every 90!

Without AP:A tactical captains are no better than science captains for dps. Whats it like to have your entire class revolve around a single skill?

Pretty fed up with tac captains saying "oh yeah you can get 20k crits off 1 torpedo easy." when 2/3 of the captain classes in the game CAN'T.

Rant over.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
11-22-2011, 05:03 AM
That's generally true of every ship and class in the game. There is too much of an effectiveness gap between a buffed and unbuffed ship. I suppose, with the current expansion of passive resistances and weapon boosts in the skill tree on tribble, that gap might shrink a bit depending on where you invest your points. Of course, captain skills especially seems to have been reduced across the board so that may shrink the gap further.

Even still, while AP:A does create a significant boost to potential damage output another class can still use Torpedoes very effectively. Anyone can run a version of High Yield or even Torp Spread. Reducing movement speed with a Tractor Beam or debuffing the target with something like Beta can produce similar effects regardless of ship or captain class.

This skill tree still isn't great for a damage dealer and tactical captain.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
11-22-2011, 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
This skill tree still isn't great for a damage dealer and tactical captain.
This may be true. Because the crit severity / chance skills are now T5 its much harder for tactical to invest into it for both energy weapons and projectiles. Not impossible though. However its even worse for the other classes.

Take science for example. Everyone knows our primary damage boosting ability is Sensor Scan. And now, with the new skill tree, there is NO skill that increases the magnitude of the debuff. Its rubbish now compared to Holodeck. The Sensors skill only increases the stealth detection aspect of it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
11-22-2011, 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korhil
Maybe if you are a tac and running under AP:A.

Seriously, if you actually look at Attack Pattern Alpha its such a crazy skill. A complete crutch for players who would normally put out low dps. Damage bonus, crazy good crit chance bonus, crazy good crit severity bonus and even a damn good turn rate bonus for 30 seconds every 90!

Without AP:A tactical captains are no better than science captains for dps. Whats it like to have your entire class revolve around a single skill?

Pretty fed up with tac captains saying "oh yeah you can get 20k crits off 1 torpedo easy." when 2/3 of the captain classes in the game CAN'T.

Rant over.
I already said I DON'T use Attack Pattern Beta, and I still out-DPS everyone else I come across.

I still get high-critical hits with my Torpedos with my Engineers and Science officers. I still see hits of 15-20k with them.

Energy weapon damage is significantly lower, but putting an Engineer in an Escort gives you ways of increasing your power levels plus that extra shield heal for survivability. Makes for a pretty good PVE setup actually, I love using my Klingon Engineer in a Siege Destroyer!
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