Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
12-21-2011, 09:16 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksided View Post
Roach - you've been around awhile man, that's like saying Season 1 PvP was the same as every season since. It's going to have a significant impact to PvP, because big changes always do.


The skill tree changes will have no effect on PvP - Those that do well in PvP will still be the ones that do well in PvP becuase they already have the experience to draw from to design and build to a purpose that supports thier playstyle in PvP

The Skill Tree changes will have no effect on PvP - Those casual players (that the Devs seem to think will flock to PvP with the changes proposed) will still fall short of being competitive until such time as they learn the ins/outs of PvP ship design and how things work in PvP.

The Skill changes will have no effect on PvP. The old school PvP'ers will adapt (once again) and the new to PvP'ers will still have to continue to learn how to PvP until they can be considered among the old school.

Those that know how to decloak and kill in seconds will still decloak and kill in seconds, ieven if those seconds last longer now.

Those that Know how to stack resists will still be able to do so.
Those that Know how to combo powers to maximum effect will still be able to do so
It will still take time to resolve combat, the only factor in the speed of such combat being the experience of those involved.

Do I like having to put points into an aspect of the game I do not play often (if at all) - No.

Will it change PvP? No.
The cream will continue float to the top of PvP and the chaff will still whine that the wheat has it better or easier than they do in PvP. (and its not thier fault but the game)

The only thing that may change is when F2P goes live and the froobies fly in and claim "All is OP" from thier limited experience and PoV, becuase they have no idea what they are doing from day one.

My only fear for the SKill tree is that now we will find most of our SP being spent on the T1 and T2 skills at a higher cost per skill level per skill and the T3+ skills will still fall short of being able to get a good spread across them due to a lack of points.
Time will tell becuase the Devs are going to do this anyway.
I suggest we all Test it the moment it is put on Tribble.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
12-21-2011, 01:42 PM
I know you want to make a rebuttal, Darksided, but saying that CaptainGeko's argument is 'ignorant or idiotic, maybe both'? That's below the belt.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
12-21-2011, 03:51 PM
I've defended the devs on several occasions for a few things. And I see nothing wrong with saying this idea is Ignorant and idiotic. It may be. Sometimes I wonder what the devs actually do all day. Or in their 40 hour work week. Sometimes a month or three will go by in the game with zero new content and no fixes to ongoing issues.

Look at the dictionary. Idiotic: showing complete lack of thought or common sense, foolish.
Ignorant: Lacking knowlege or awareness in general; uneducated.

Both possibly apply here. Why would you force someone to spend points in something they may never do. It's like wanting to be a sniper but the modern warfare devs say you gotta spend 25% of your ammo on your pistol. Obviously I don't play the game, but if I did want to play sniper I could care less about my pistol. If they do that over there it would shock me. But maybe some of you play and would know.

A great man once said if you give up any amount of freedom for any amount of security you will have neither. This applies here, and in many other facets of life.

Don't give away your skill point freedom without a fight.

-horizon
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
12-21-2011, 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1nONLY_DRock
I know you want to make a rebuttal, Darksided, but saying that CaptainGeko's argument is 'ignorant or idiotic, maybe both'? That's below the belt.
What Horizon said. His comments as they relate to PvP, which I put in bold in the OP, are either ignorant or idiotic. His suggestion that this is somehow going to help PvP is....

Yep, after triple checking, I used the right vocabulary. There may be good reasons for the change, long term reasons unspoken, but the points he specifically made related to PvP are bogus and nowhere near the mark.

This change will do nothing positive for PvP, space or ground. He shouldn't have suggested otherwise, but now that he does, I think it is revealing and unfortunately, disappointing.

Furthermore keep in mind that a DEV leaked in a chat discussion during a STOked episode a few weeks back the long term intent is to have two different skill sets - one for ground and one for space. That means what is coming with the 75:25 split isn't the end, just the next step before more changes down the road.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
12-21-2011, 04:55 PM
1nONLY_DRock - btw, I noticed PBEM in your sig. Good to see that still exists. I never did a RP PBEM game, but I remember fondly the old 90s PBEM game VGA Planets, IMO perhaps the greatest SciFi computer game in the 90s.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
12-21-2011, 05:51 PM
My favorite space computer game is still the star trek vs star wars mod for galactic civilizations 2.

Man did I dork it up with that game forever.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
12-22-2011, 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHorizon
My favorite space computer game is still the star trek vs star wars mod for galactic civilizations 2.

Man did I dork it up with that game forever.
Any and all console playable WIng Commander games where awesome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
12-22-2011, 08:05 AM
Why don't they just make it so you have Space points and Ground points as two separate types of points? Ground missions give ground points and space missions give space points. Give each tree a reasonable cap. There's not really a balance issue in having a character being good at both, because well... PVE isn't competitive so balance doesn't really matter, and PVP players will continue to specialize. It seems like a simple solution, and makes logical sense. Why should I get better at starship energy weapons after throwing a few grenades?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
12-22-2011, 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Any and all console playable WIng Commander games where awesome.
I played them when they came out... on a 386 then on a 486.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt8vD5y0eE8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_PUcu0mBKg


I would drop this game in a heart beat for new wing commander.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
12-22-2011, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksided View Post
CaptainGeko's theory is that by requiring players to have fewer skill points spent in space or ground combat skills, this will somehow impact PvP positively by reducing the number of high end uber template builds that allow for greater damage.
But in actual fact, what's gonna happen is good PvPers are gonna own bad PvPers, just as they always have. Because the good ones take time to learn the game and they know what they're doing. And if they can't be good here, they'll go somewhere else.

So if they push this forced splitting of skills through, they're not gonna solve the problem of newbie or casual PvPers being repeatedly ganked by those who are far better players, and as if that's not bad enough, they'll have also driven off another chunk of players in the process.
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