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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Hello Guys

For a very long time I used an Excelsior Retrofit or an Assault Cruiser with my tac. Officer. I did use following setup with great success in PVP:

8 beam arrays
borg deflector, borg engines, borg console and the Aegis/Reman shields.

BO:
tacteam1-beta1-BO3(sometimes replaced by Omega 3 or Btss3)
eptw1-epts2-epts3-dem3
eptw1-ET2
epte1
HE1-TSS2

engi consoles: EPS, Plasma Manifold, +35% shields, neutronium Armor

Now this setup allowed me to do quite well in PvP and in 1v1 fights against other very good escort pilotes.

Now after Ive returned for S5 with all the new skill changes I realized that now when a competent escort captain alpha strikes me my cruiser goes *pop* in a second...no matter if I have epts 3 and Tss2 on...

I just get hit with a Bo3 for like 30k damage and then that escort sits on my rear and unleashes its firepower. the only means I have to get away are evasives and deuterium but even then he catches up with me and usually kills me no matter how hard I try to keep him in my broadside.
Ive tryed a differen Loadout with torps and/or dual Beam Banks but never was I able to break their shields or to keep them in my frontal Arc. My rear 3-4 Beams and a torpedo launcher are mostly never enough to damage an escort which cycles epts1 and 2 togehther with TSS2 or even TSS3 (mvam).

While my 4 rear weapon slots wont do much against him, I dont have the heals to keep up with his damage.

My Engi/cruiser toon is ofc much more "tankey" and can deal with escorts damage better, but I really feel that Iam always on my backfoot...healing myself not beeing able to dish out any damage nor beeing able to spend my heals on my team.

My question is: Is tac/cruiser really dead for PvP or have you guys found out any good way to deal with the problems Ive described?

Cheers!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
12-12-2011, 10:55 AM
Not dead. Try something besides all those EP2Xs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
12-12-2011, 11:00 AM
I had a really good build for a tac/cruiser Vor'cha. I imagined I could hear the howls and tears when those helpless Defiant's saw all that cannon fire coming at them!

...but sadly I haven't had the heart to check it since everything went to pot.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
12-28-2011, 12:16 PM
I agree with the above poster - I'm certainly no PVP expert but it's obvious at a glance you have way too many EPT-whatevers. You should probably pick two, with no more than 3 or so copies between them - like having 2xEPTS to have the shield boost up at all times, with 1xEPTW to boost your energy back up quick after firing a BO3 blast.

I can give you some specific build ideas if you like, as far as throwing in RSP as a panic button, but I think not having at least 5 powers sharing a cooldown will help some.

As far as the specific issue about escorts getting in behind you, as they are wont to do, I would suggest trying to work in a few options to discourage this. Mines might work - either chroniton, for the proc, or the cloaking tractor mines or something. If he just nailed you with a beam overload he's not going to be able to immediately FAW to kill them all. Otherwise a chroniton torpedo launcher and THY might discourage tailgating and give you a chance to slow him down a bit.

Personally I think EWP would serve you better than DEM - at the very least he's going to have to swerve around it, which gives you a better shot at swinging him back into your broadside. Tractor beam might work.

I mean for any option you have for slowing him there's probably a counter, but dumping a combination of warp plasma and tractor mines or a chroniton torpedo up his nose should at least give him something to think about, and you a better shot at swinging around and launching a broadside at him.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
12-28-2011, 02:36 PM
I'm an Eng on a similar build (8-beam, full Borg), and I agree with the previous posters about the EPtX skills. Let me add two more points:

1. APB is cleared by Tac Team, and everyone in PvP will have at least 1 TT. You aren't getting as much out of that skill as you would otherwise hope.

2. I have DEM1, though I'm not a big fan of it. It's only effective with lots of rapid-fire. I suggest you find Aux2SIF3 or Aceton Beam as defensive skills and switch to DEM1. EWP may also be a good to get out of the "Escort Rear Entry" problem. The traditional tactic for that is to hit reverse and spiral upwards, staying out of his firing arcs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
12-29-2011, 07:21 AM
recommendation

EPtS3.

Anything else will go into your ensign Engi slots, as a rank 1 skill.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
12-29-2011, 10:15 AM
Ditch DEM III and DEM in general ni PvP, and never use more than 3 EPtX skills, 2 being the preferred limited number on the Excelsior Retrofit. I like AUX2ID in the Excelsior Retrofit, because it makes good use of the increased turn rate.

If you invest in hull/shields for your character skill points, use high CAP shields, and use SIF mod Deflectors, you can get well over 53K+ hull and 10K+ shields each arc, making your cruiser ~95K+ of shields/hull.

At that point, running high AUX using a lot of resist alloy/armor + AUX2SIF III + Polarize Hull II + EPtS III + TSS I + Attack Pattern Delta will make it very hard for folks to kill you, and certainly the instant death will stop. If you are running with high base shield power instead of high base AUX power, that's part of your problem. As others have said, ditch Attack Pattern Beta, go with Delta on the Excelsior Retrofit becuse it plays to your ships strengths.

Personally, I'm not sold at all on ENG consoles for shields and prefer armor/alloy everytime, particularly on cruisers that can have so many shield/hull recharge BO options. If someone can point to some math that says shield ENG consoles are useful, I'd be interested.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
12-29-2011, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksided View Post
Ditch DEM III and DEM in general ni PvP, and never use more than 3 EPtX skills, 2 being the preferred limited number on the Excelsior Retrofit. I like AUX2ID in the Excelsior Retrofit, because it makes good use of the increased turn rate.

If you invest in hull/shields for your character skill points, use high CAP shields, and use SIF mod Deflectors, you can get well over 53K+ hull and 10K+ shields each arc, making your cruiser ~95K+ of shields/hull.

At that point, running high AUX using a lot of resist alloy/armor + AUX2SIF III + Polarize Hull II + EPtS III + TSS I + Attack Pattern Delta will make it very hard for folks to kill you, and certainly the instant death will stop. If you are running with high base shield power instead of high base AUX power, that's part of your problem. As others have said, ditch Attack Pattern Beta, go with Delta on the Excelsior Retrofit becuse it plays to your ships strengths.

Personally, I'm not sold at all on ENG consoles for shields and prefer armor/alloy everytime, particularly on cruisers that can have so many shield/hull recharge BO options. If someone can point to some math that says shield ENG consoles are useful, I'd be interested.
this build sounds better on a star cruiser but I do agree with you on making the Excelsior more of a tank since it has on less engineering slot that could have made for more tank. as for the 53k hull heal can you go more into detail. I mean aux to sif 3 can go to 10k hull heal Hazard emitter goes there very easy and engineering team 3 does as well. where would you get the other 33k from?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
12-29-2011, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Enterprise_J
this build sounds better on a star cruiser but I do agree with you on making the Excelsior more of a tank since it has on less engineering slot that could have made for more tank. as for the 53k hull heal can you go more into detail. I mean aux to sif 3 can go to 10k hull heal Hazard emitter goes there very easy and engineering team 3 does as well. where would you get the other 33k from?
He's talking about the SIF modifier on some Deflectors. The SIF modifier buffs your SIF skill which in turn increases you hull strength. Positron Deflectors are best for those as they have a native buff to SIF so the modifier makes them even stronger although the modifier itself can be found on any deflector type.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
12-29-2011, 06:56 PM
2 sets of 2 EPtX skills are best, i recommend 2x EPtW 1, and 2x EPtS 2. the result, if you keep track of it, is 100% uptime with both skills boosting your power levels and defense.

high cap shields are still best, and with RSP they can be recharged almost instantly, making their regeneration stat irreverent and their high capacity stat invaluable. let TSS, EPtS, and RSP do the regeneration for you, the only important number is the max capacity

so, run this

TT1, APD 1, 2x EPtW 1, 2x EPtS 2, RSP 2, ET 3, AtS 3, TSS1, and HE 2 on an assault cruiser, your weapons power will be high and your defenses as strong as they can be. i've found running 2 Neutronium Alloys doesn't run into much in the way of diminishing returns, i recommend running that too.

all these skills used in the right order and at the right time will proboly get you accused of hacking, it has for me, but as a result deaths are rare.
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