Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
12-31-2011, 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkjedi View Post
So when I see Star Wars homages, silliness, or simple poor craftsmanship present in the game, I feel the need to speak out. I feel the need to let the responsible parties know that they're on the wrong path. Unfinished Klingons after 2 years? Cathedral-sized interiors? Incessant zoning when flying across space? Foot-races for a holiday event? No music from any of the shows or movies? These are the things that worry me.
My two bars of latinum:

I don't disagree with the original poster. It feels like a lot of us believe the game is good, has the potential to be great and want to push Cryptic to do so.

I get that people get passionate about it (remember that fan is really short for fanatic), and frankly I've been offended by the tone on the forums of late. Cryptic vs. the Players is bad any way you slice it. I admit to being part of the mindset that Cryptic is not inherently evil, but when your heads are buried in code all day it's difficult to gain perspective. It's probably more difficult when the forums explode in flames over the slightest thing.

So why'd I quote darkjedi above? I slightly disagree. There's a place in Trek for silliness too. Q-Pid, The Trouble With Tribbles, A Piece of the Action, anything involving Captain Proton. All of these things have their place. I like that I can be the hero and save the planet from impending doom. And I like my scarf too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
12-31-2011, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiant797 View Post
...So why'd I quote darkjedi above? I slightly disagree. There's a place in Trek for silliness too...
Sorry if I didn't clarify enough. I agree that there's room for humor in Star Trek and your examples are well-taken (Trouble With Tribbles and Piece of the Action are two great classics). What I meant by 'silliness' is things that don't belong in the mythos, or seem disrespectful to the long and honorable legacy of Star Trek.

Humorous episode content is one thing, but a short green guy handing out light-lyrpas on the week TOR is released and Bridges the size of cathedrals just seem very out-of-place. I used the term 'silly' because it's these types of treatments that concern me with STO in Cryptic's hands.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
12-31-2011, 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkjedi View Post
Sorry if I didn't clarify enough. I agree that there's room for humor in Star Trek and your examples are well-taken (Trouble With Tribbles and Piece of the Action are two great classics). What I meant by 'silliness' is things that don't belong in the mythos, or seem disrespectful to the long and honorable legacy of Star Trek. To me, a short green guy handing out light-lyrpas on the week TOR is released is silly.
I honestly don't understand why this is so offensive to some people. I'm a huge Star Trek fan, but I'm not a fanatic (which someone rightfully pointed out is where the word "fan" stems from.) I love Yoda. He's awesome. I missed him. I'd like him to come back for a day. And I think it shows a lot of respect and even confidence that Cryptic slipped this into the winter event. It did not bother me in the slightest, and really, why does it bother you? It is not part of the mythos. It's part of a winter event that has little to no significance on the Star Trek online universe.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
12-31-2011, 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rswfire View Post
It did not bother me in the slightest, and really, why does it bother you? It is not part of the mythos. It's part of a winter event that has little to no significance on the Star Trek online universe.


Moreover, a Winter Event made by Q. He ~would~ riff on Star Wars. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
12-31-2011, 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkjedi View Post
But please... take Star Trek seriously - it matters to many of us. More than it should, perhaps
Good heavens, so much this. /\

I feel like some of the Devs do take it seriously, as evidenced by the good things in this game, but I feel like some segments of the higher management do not take it seriously, or seriously enough.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
12-31-2011, 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeslyn
Moreover, a Winter Event made by Q. He ~would~ riff on Star Wars. :p
That goes without saying. :-) Well within Q behavior, lol...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
12-31-2011, 10:05 PM
I dont think anyone would be as upset about the Star Wars homages if (WE Trek fans)were given a complete game. Star Trek is always getting the shaft and it didnt get the MMO it deserves. I look at Star Wars TOR and see how much better and complete it is. It makes me sick. Star Wars always seems to get the resources , time and more opportunites to get it right. It frustrates me greatly.

CBS and Paramount cant seem to get the right people to implement the franchise in gaming like Lucas does. Ladies and Gentlemen that is what JJ was refering to when he was comparing Star Trek to Star Wars. He wasnt saying he wanted Trek to be Wars. NOT AT ALL! What he was saying is that Trek deserves the same or better treatment ,respect and most importantly BUDGET and RESOURCES that Star Wars gets.

I enjoy parts of this game but lets face it. We got stuck with a rush job, hodge podge , and we are basically told that we better like it or leave it cause thats all we get and if we dont support it then we get nothing. Thats basically what we have gotten most of the time with few exceptions. For every Star Trek Elite Force or Bridge Commander , There is a bunch of crappy buggy unplayable POSes like Legacy , Dominion Wars , New Worlds etc. etc. Paramount and CBS is to blame and they have taken Trek and its fans for granted for years.

I am not even that hard to please. I am not one of those guys that needs 100% cannon adherance cause the show cant even demonstrate that. I dont even mind the game is combat heavy. Its a game it has to be. Or fan boy pandering where everyting has to be a rework of previous things seen on the show. I actually hate that. I just want a complete Trek game that has all the elements of Trek that isnt patched together with a super hero game engine that can't implement what most people want because the engine wasnt made for it. Anyway that is my rant and my 2 cents.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkjedi View Post
THIS! SO MUCH THIS!!

Star Trek is more than just a cool show or a way to spend an hour. It's a symbol of what mankind could become. It's intelligent, optomistic, and progressive. It was instrumental in forming many of my early perceptions and opinions.

So when I see Star Wars homages, silliness, or simple poor craftsmanship present in the game, I feel the need to speak out. I feel the need to let the responsible parties know that they're on the wrong path. Unfinished Klingons after 2 years? Cathedral-sized interiors? Incessant zoning when flying across space? Foot-races for a holiday event? No music from any of the shows or movies? These are the things that worry me.

I'll give credit where credit is due - the Starships are amazing. Space Combat is fun. The uniforms are looking sharp. Canon references are clever and welcome.

But please... take Star Trek seriously - it matters to many of us. More than it should, perhaps
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
12-31-2011, 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptAhaab
I I just want a complete Trek game that has all the elements of Trek that isnt patched together with a super hero game engine that can't implement what most people want because the engine wasnt made for it. .
THIS!

Totally agree with that. However i will deal with what we got for one simple reason. If Cryptic hadn't taken over the game and shoe horned it in the CoH/CO game engine we wouldnt even have a Star Trek MMO right now. Because of that one thing i look past a lot of the faults where the game engine isnt able to truely handle some of the functionality that should be in this game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
12-31-2011, 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rswfire View Post
I honestly don't understand why this is so offensive to some people.

/snip

I think it shows a lot of respect and even confidence that Cryptic slipped this into the winter event.

/snip
Hi Fire, nice to talk to you again.

I will try and state my negative opinions as constructively as possible. This seems like a nice thread to far and I don't want it to get too off track or just turn into a grip session that Cryptic has no reason to read. That said, you bring up your side of this point in a way that I think provides me an opening for one more (hopefully constructive) chance to elucidate on my opposing view point, as I keep trying to respectfully get to the heart of what is so irksome about the SW nod

As another poster said, that kind of thing does have it's place. IMO, that time and place is not the launch of a new SW game or the in game holiday event (ostensibly the holiday event being a 'thank you' to the community and a chance for them to celebrate this game). (although, you have a certain point about technically (but a minor sticky technicality when it comes to dev/ player relations) the holiday event being q-generated and not exactly part of the official lore).

Why do I not think it's the right time or place? I would like Cryptic to restore (by their actions) my confidence in their respect for THIS IP before they go around paying respect to other IPs. And until Cryptic (by their actions) has restored MY confidence in this games future I would appreciate it if they held their own confidence a little 'closer to the chest'.

It just goes to show that Cryptics understanding/concern for how some of us feel about the management right now seems to be so off, that that in and of itself is an added cause for concern among some of the more 'fanatical'.

I have been very happy with the devs posts in the forums of late, they are frank and candid and I don't think that should be counted against them. But I agree that their 'official' communication has been... shall we say 'not well vetted'? They shoot themselves in the foot if they lay out hard timelines, so I don't think it's to anyone 's bebefit for them to make to specific promises about times and dates, but right now there is nothing on the calandar that I can see past F2P. Quarterly estimates for things seem reasonable, but I would even be happy with a 'short' ,'near', 'long range' goals type plan. We have no idea where they are headed. We have no idea what their game plan is beyond

1) launch F2P

2) Bring in new blood

3) nickle and dime new blood to death with C-Store

4) repeat

As far as you could guess by the last 4 months activity, F2P blogs, and current calendar -- that's the game plan.

Something like the old engineering reports would be great. At first I thought the F2P blogs were really great. I felt like Cryptic was doing a great job of keeping us in the loop. But as update after update brought changes that kicked me in the nuts, and each new F2P blog essentially said "Aren't the new changes wonderful!!", I started tuning them out like annoying TV commercials (or commer-shills). Now, I am sorry to say I am pretty jaded about the management and Cryptic has some work to do just to get me to where I am willing to listen to what the management has to say with an open mind.

I'll be brutally honest (and I should tell you I'm having my fifth glass of champagne). I have never read the dev post with the specs for the 'bug ship'. Somewhere in the first or second paragraph I had to stop reading because I could not shake the feeling that I was watching one of those tv spots with the wildly enthusiastic used car salesman. The kind where they tell you if you come down and buy a car right now they will give you three softballs to give to the kids because they have right here on the lot a dunk tank with a guy dressed like a big purple dinosaur. It's like every official statement from the management is Jack Nickolson in ID4 saying "You still have 2 outta 3 branches of the government working for you and that aint bad!" with a big smile on their face. I don't want to hear more 'confidence' from them. I want to hear a statement that says "yes, we know that the entire legislative branch got incinerated and yes, that kind of means we dropped the ball on national defense. But here is how we plan to save the planet from certain doom."

I keep waiting for a F2P or other official announcement that tells me something I want to hear, not just what Cryptic wants me to hear. I just stopped caring what the management had to say. I stopped believing that the management had anything to say other than "I am overwhelmingly pleased to announce that henceforth you will give us lots of money for everything we offer and get very little in return. Those are the new rules. Deal with it."

To end on a constructive note, what is an example of what I would I like to hear from Cryptic?

One great thing would be to hear an official announcement with a long list of long time bugs that they are committed to hunting down before any more 'fun, silly, random, etc' new 'content' is added to the game. I'm talking about things like voldermort and the bridge BO clone issue (yes, I know that both of those are being addressed now, and I'm very grateful for it. But if all I did was read official statements I would have very little knowledge that those are being addressed. I mostly know about Cryptics work on the issues because it has been brought up outside of official channels. Really, a few well drafted apologies for would go a long way to restoring my faith in Cryptic. Some one in charge who has the leadership ability to admit when they have made mistakes. Specifically apologies for:

1) the fact that we were promised we would not lose anything, when in fact we did.

2) the fact that we were promised the plans for the future laid out in DStahls engineering reports would not change when in fact they have (or at least the priorities of work have greatly shifted).

Happy new years! May 2012 be a great year for STO, all the Fan(atics), and everyone at Cryptic and PWE!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
12-31-2011, 10:31 PM
I dont hate Cryptic or the devs. They did what they had to do. My beef is with Paramount/CBS. They are the owners and keepers of the franchise. They have years of mistakes that predate Cryptic and STO. They moves are lack of moves are the reason for this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher-Soldier
Hi Fire, nice to talk to you again.

I will try and state my negative opinions as constructively as possible. This seems like a nice thread to far and I don't want it to get too off track or just turn into a grip session that Cryptic has no reason to read. That said, you bring up your side of this point in a way that I think provides me an opening for one more (hopefully constructive) chance to elucidate on my opposing view point, as I keep trying to respectfully get to the heart of what is so irksome about the SW nod

As another poster said, that kind of thing does have it's place. IMO, that time and place is not the launch of a new SW game or the in game holiday event (ostensibly the holiday event being a 'thank you' to the community and a chance for them to celebrate this game). (although, you have a certain point about technically (but a minor sticky technicality when it comes to dev/ player relations) the holiday event being q-generated and not exactly part of the official lore).

Why do I not think it's the right time or place? I would like Cryptic to restore (by their actions) my confidence in their respect for THIS IP before they go around paying respect to other IPs. And until Cryptic (by their actions) has restored MY confidence in this games future I would appreciate it if they held their own confidence a little 'closer to the chest'.

It just goes to show that Cryptics understanding/concern for how some of us feel about the management right now seems to be so off, that that in and of itself is an added cause for concern among some of the more 'fanatical'.

I have been very happy with the devs posts in the forums of late, they are frank and candid and I don't think that should be counted against them. But I agree that their 'official' communication has been... shall we say 'not well vetted'? They shoot themselves in the foot if they lay out hard timelines, so I don't think it's to anyone 's bebefit for them to make to specific promises about times and dates, but right now there is nothing on the calandar that I can see past F2P. Quarterly estimates for things seem reasonable, but I would even be happy with a 'short' ,'near', 'long range' goals type plan. We have no idea where they are headed. We have no idea what their game plan is beyond

1) launch F2P

2) Bring in new blood

3) nickle and dime new blood to death with C-Store

4) repeat

As far as you could guess by the last 4 months activity, F2P blogs, and current calendar -- that's the game plan.

Something like the old engineering reports would be great. At first I thought the F2P blogs were really great. I felt like Cryptic was doing a great job of keeping us in the loop. But as update after update brought changes that kicked me in the nuts, and each new F2P blog essentially said "Aren't the new changes wonderful!!", I started tuning them out like annoying TV commercials (or commer-shills). Now, I am sorry to say I am pretty jaded about the management and Cryptic has some work to do just to get me to where I am willing to listen to what the management has to say with an open mind.

I'll be brutally honest (and I should tell you I'm having my fifth glass of champagne). I have never read the dev post with the specs for the 'bug ship'. Somewhere in the first or second paragraph I had to stop reading because I could not shake the feeling that I was watching one of those tv spots with the wildly enthusiastic used car salesman. The kind where they tell you if you come down and buy a car right now they will give you three softballs to give to the kids because they have right here on the lot a dunk tank with a guy dressed like a big purple dinosaur. It's like every official statement from the management is Jack Nickolson in ID4 saying "You still have 2 outta 3 branches of the government working for you and that aint bad!" with a big smile on their face. I don't want to hear more 'confidence' from them. I want to hear a statement that says "yes, we know that the entire legislative branch got incinerated and yes, that kind of means we dropped the ball on national defense. But here is how we plan to save the planet from certain doom."

I keep waiting for a F2P or other official announcement that tells me something I want to hear, not just what Cryptic wants me to hear. I just stopped caring what the management had to say. I stopped believing that the management had anything to say other than "I am overwhelmingly pleased to announce that henceforth you will give us lots of money for everything we offer and get very little in return. Those are the new rules. Deal with it."

To end on a constructive note, what is an example of what I would I like to hear from Cryptic?

One great thing would be to hear an official announcement with a long list of long time bugs that they are committed to hunting down before any more 'fun, silly, random, etc' new 'content' is added to the game. I'm talking about things like voldermort and the bridge BO clone issue (yes, I know that both of those are being addressed now, and I'm very grateful for it. But if all I did was read official statements I would have very little knowledge that those are being addressed. I mostly know about Cryptics work on the issues because it has been brought up outside of official channels. Really, a few well drafted apologies for would go a long way to restoring my faith in Cryptic. Some one in charge who has the leadership ability to admit when they have made mistakes. Specifically apologies for:

1) the fact that we were promised we would not lose anything, when in fact we did.

2) the fact that we were promised the plans for the future laid out in DStahls engineering reports would not change when in fact they have (or at least the priorities of work have greatly shifted).

Happy new years! May 2012 be a great year for STO, all the Fan(atics), and everyone at Cryptic and PWE!
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