Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 101
01-03-2012, 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirian_darkstar View Post
New Dev blog shows some things that should help save a "sinking ship".
I highlighted all the impotant parts. Your welcome.
It all sounds very exciting and promising. Thanks for sharing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 102
01-03-2012, 05:52 PM
That Dev Blog doesn't actually say anything beyond "we have some stuff coming. maybe. you can't beat me up if it's late or doesn't happen because i'm not saying much." Don't praise him for that cowardice, gobbling up these crumbs he deigns to throw at us when he feels like it and calling it communication. A real, effective leader makes commitments and doesn't mind being held to them and answering for them when they're not.

I could never go up to a paying client and say "well, the team might or might not do this vague list of stuff this month, but don't hold me to that!" and expect them to take me seriously.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 103
01-03-2012, 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekrit_Agent
That Dev Blog doesn't actually say anything beyond "we have some stuff coming. maybe. you can't beat me up if it's late or doesn't happen because i'm not saying much." Don't praise him for that cowardice, gobbling up these crumbs he deigns to throw at us when he feels like it and calling it communication. A real, effective leader makes commitments and doesn't mind being held to them and answering for them when they're not.

I could never go up to a paying client and say "well, the team might or might not do this vague list of stuff this month, but don't hold me to that!" and expect them to take me seriously.
Well, I did say it sounded "promising." That was meant to serve two purposes. One, it would be great if it happens. And two, it doesn't mean it will, in which case it was "an empty promise."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 104
01-03-2012, 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirian_darkstar View Post
New Dev blog shows some things that should help save a "sinking ship".
I highlighted all the impotant parts. Your welcome.
Hmm. You seem to have left a rather important part out:

Quote:
As with anything that the development team posts that is forward looking, everything said here is subject to change. Even the best laid plans are subject to interference by Q and other anomalous events.
As far as I'm concerned, that's the most important and telling statement of the entire post. Because of this one statement, I must take back everything I said. It sounds more like "empty promises" now. You know, more of the "same ol', same ol'." That one statement makes the entire post disappointing and not at all worth listening to.

Seriously, is there anything they're willing to say with certainty? How many times have they said that the foundry was getting updates? Here's a post that is now over a year old on the same subject. I will listen to a post from the team when it says, "This is what will happen in Q1, Q2, Q3, and Q4." That's the only thing I will take at face value and put any faith in.

Now, let's say they did that and they only managed to get 85% of the things done in Q1 that they had projected. Okay, so now you update your projections for Q2, Q3, and Q4. And since I'd say 85% is pretty good, I'd feel quite a bit more confident in any future projections.

Yes! Plans can change. Should that happen, let us know. But don't make these "fantastical" and "imaginative" posts that amount to nothing more than "here is our forward looking plan so EVERYTHING is subject to change." My rational mind refuses to give that any credibility whatsoever.

I'm a programmer. If I were to give this sort of update to my clients (and paying customers are clients), I wouldn't have a job for very long. Clients expect results, and they expect to know when to expect those results.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 105
01-03-2012, 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekrit_Agent
I could never go up to a paying client and say "well, the team might or might not do this vague list of stuff this month, but don't hold me to that!" and expect them to take me seriously.
I seem to be inching closer and closer to your side of the debate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 106
01-03-2012, 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rswfire View Post
Hmm. You seem to have left a rather important part out:
No i didn't. It goes without saying. I didn't omit it like I was trying to hide it, it simply wasn't the point.



Quote:
That one statement makes the entire post disappointing and not at all worth listening to.
Don't know what to tell you really. If your bent on being a malcontent, there is simply nothing that can be done to change your mind.
...
GG
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 107
01-03-2012, 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirian_darkstar View Post
Don't know what to tell you really. If your bent on being a malcontent, there is simply nothing that can be done to change your mind.
Don't take my post as if it were really directed at you specifically, because it of course was not. And I would not classify myself as a "malcontent." If I had to choose a word, it would be "realist." That's all. I just don't think it is really all that difficult to make honest projections without the need for a disclaimer.

I haven't left yet. Like I said, I'll "hold out some hope" and "withhold some judgment" until Season 6 and perhaps even Season 7. But again, I'm just being a realist. I personally just don't think that post can be taken at face value. Nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong in this instance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 108
01-03-2012, 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rswfire View Post
I'm just being a realist. .
I understand your position on it.
I'm more of a pessimistic-optimist.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 109
01-04-2012, 02:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricksterbro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJubJub
Ah i remember when Dstahl said there would be FEs almost every week. But it looks like that went down the drain real fast.
Don't count that out just yet, they haven't even started up again yet. Wait until they start up again in February before dismissing that completely
Wait for it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirian_darkstar View Post
New Dev blog shows some things that should help save a "sinking ship".
I highlighted all the impotant parts. Your welcome.
New Dev posts in response to Dev blog shows some things that should help sink a "sinking ship". I highlighted all the important parts. You're welcome...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
The Odyssey class starship and the new Klingon Flagship will be available through game play using in game currencies (this is a promise). There may be variants of these ships in the C-Store at a later date, but you will definitely be able to get these ships in game. We'll reveal more about how they will be available later this month.

To set expectations on featured episode series, I think it's realistic for the development team to produce two or three series a year. I know we can fit in two series in 2012 and I'm trying to build a schedule to get a third one in, but it's not clear that it'll happen. As it is right now, you can expect the second series of the year to come out a little after the Season 6 launch, probably in July. (Note that once again this is a forward looking statement and not a promise, because pretty much anything could change by then.)

It's my belief that it takes a range of game play options to keep the game going. When it comes to my "something new" comment, I am thinking broadly. Consider how December went. We did the launch one week, Q's Wonderland event started the next week, the Duty Officer event the third week, and the nanopulse weapons in the fourth week. That's "something new every week" by my definition. And I think that the majority of players liked that there was something new (even if it was small) happening regularly.

It's unfortunately impractical to deliver story content all the time. In fact, story content will mostly be coming through the featured episodes (with somewhere between 9 and 13 episodes next year as per above). I'm working hard to get in more special events (like the Q's Winter Wonderland), more calendar events (like the Mirror Universe or Starfleet Academy), more content that is repeatable (like the STFs), and more fun little weekend events (like the recent Duty Officer weekend). We'll also sprinkle in things like the Duty Officer expansion and some new game features. There are a lot of ways to provide something new to you all.

And I'm totally okay with people being skeptical about delivery. Until the game builds a track record of delivery, feel free to be skeptical. We're working hard, though, to get things on track. I think December was a nice start, and that the next few months should prove out that we have the development team delivering. I'm sorry for the apparent stall in January, but the free-to-play conversion is a LOT of work and necessitated a brief slow down.

Happy new year everyone!

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
So you can get the Odyssey for in-game currencies (probably Dilithium, so you can get it for real money). Or you can buy a store variant (+1 no doubt) for CPoints (so you can get it for real money).

Also, you're looking at about five hours of playable, scripted mission content per year. That will be padded with fluff events, and yes apparently that means D'Angelo views stuff on a par with crafting for less materials every so many hours as meaningful "content".

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
I'm not sure where some people got the impression that the STO team was staffed up. We're trying to staff up, but the team is not any larger than it has been in the past... and is smaller in some critical areas. Staffing up will take time. I didn't talk about the second half of 2012, because we hope to do a lot more once we have more staff... but it depends on a lot on how successful we are at finding the right people to hire.

I'm sorry that the news that we can't produce more featured episodes is a surprise. I was not aware that anyone indicated that it might be possible to get a more continuous stream of them going. I was really happy that I might be able to get 3 series out in one year, and getting 3 serious out seemed like an "epic win" for the dev team to me... but I didn't know that anyone had expectations that more than 3 series in a year was possible. I don't really think it is possible unless the team grows significantly. So I'm sorry that I get to break the news to you all.

The Klingon faction work is definitely on 2012's list, but I can't promise any date or details at this time. Once I have a more confident dev schedule, I'll share what I know. I don't want to share anything until I have an actual dev schedule that makes it very likely to happen.

I'm also sorry about how little came to the game in the middle of 2011. I can't do anything to change the past, though. I inherited the game as it was in late September, and I'm doing my best to bring you as all much as I can as quickly as I can.

I'm also trying to set realistic expectations with you all about what the team can do and plans to deliver. The STO dev team is amazing, and while they can't do everything that this forum crowd apparently wants, I think that 2012 is going to be a great year for the game.

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
So the team has gotten smaller, not larger, including in important areas.

D'Angelo doesn't even know what we've told to expect from the game, even at the most fundamental level of things including content.

The KDF update is so incomplete and far off that it's release can't even be ballparked beyond "this year" and that has to be a maybe, despite suggestions to the contrary, if it's so nebulous that's all that can be offered. Especially considering how far we've seen much firmer dates fall. And remember that two features episodes (ten missions, or about five hours of gameplay) is what we can generally expect for an entire year through the main method of releasing this type of content, so if anyone is expecting any real bridge made on the KDF front... well, that ain't gonna happen. If five hours a year is what we can generally and reasonably expect across the entire game they can't reasonably make a dent in the hole that is the KDF, not even if they devoted everything to it, since the content deficit is substantially larger than five hours worth of missions.

They're sorry the game sucked in 2011 but... oh well. They blame Dstahl and can't be bothered to do anything about it, nor try to make amends.

2012 is only going to have about 2.5 hours of extra mission content compared to the 2011 that we all hated and cursed due to the content drought.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 110
01-04-2012, 02:39 AM
Well I have to say out of everything he said, this seemed the most impactful to me:

Quote:
And I'm totally okay with people being skeptical about delivery. Until the game builds a track record of delivery, feel free to be skeptical. We're working hard, though, to get things on track. I think December was a nice start, and that the next few months should prove out that we have the development team delivering. I'm sorry for the apparent stall in January, but the free-to-play conversion is a LOT of work and necessitated a brief slow down.
He just sounds genuine to me in the red highlighted section, although I would have chosen my words more carefully. I wouldn't have said that I was "okay with it." Really, he should be "ashamed of it."

And being a programmer/manager myself, I'm certain what he said in yellow is true, though the word "brief" strikes me as a very calculated "politician's response."

This, too, and I really hate it when people "pass the blame onto someone else."

Quote:
I'm also sorry about how little came to the game in the middle of 2011. I can't do anything to change the past, though. I inherited the game as it was in late September, and I'm doing my best to bring you as all much as I can as quickly as I can.
My post here was only meant to address the above quotes.

I concur with everything you said. This in particular is a very sad truth:

Quote:
Also, you're looking at about five hours of playable, scripted mission content per year. That will be padded with fluff events, and yes apparently that means D'Angelo views stuff on a par with crafting for less materials every so many hours as meaningful "content".
Sadly, this leaves me less than inspired for STO 2012.

And I noticed he said nothing about the foundry, despite that once again appearing in the blog itself.

Thanks for sharing, as I would have never found this post on my own.

Hell, I mine as well comment on this also:

Quote:
I'm also trying to set realistic expectations with you all about what the team can do and plans to deliver. The STO dev team is amazing, and while they can't do everything that this forum crowd apparently wants, I think that 2012 is going to be a great year for the game.
Yup, it will be a great year in profitability because of the "free-to-play, pay-to-win model." But there's a big difference between "a great year for the game" and "a great game."

But even with that said, the red section sounds genuine!

I don't know what is going on in there, but I just don't think they have what it takes to deliver! I have a lot of respect for sincerity though. It's hard for me to be too critical.

I can't help myself. I just have to comment on this too:

Quote:
And getting 3 series out seemed like an "epic win" for the dev team to me.
The bar is set so low there that this is considered an "epic win." /sigh

Quote:
t's unfortunately impractical to deliver story content all the time. In fact, story content will mostly be coming through the featured episodes (with somewhere between 9 and 13 episodes next year as per above)
This is due to an "epic failure" when creating two systems for developing content; one used by the devs (assuming one exists or they actually hard-code this somehow, God forbid!) and one for the players (the foundry). I've said it so many times now -- create one product (the foundry) that is directly embedded into the core of the product (game) and you'll be able to have INTERNS creating content. He himself is a programer. He must know this to be true!

Quote:
I'm working hard to get in more special events (like the Q's Winter Wonderland), more calendar events (like the Mirror Universe or Starfleet Academy), more content that is repeatable (like the STFs), and more fun little weekend events (like the recent Duty Officer weekend). We'll also sprinkle in things like the Duty Officer expansion and some new game features. There are a lot of ways to provide something new to you all.
I don't want this. I don't want people working on fluff when they could be working on something substantive. I could wait for content if it meant features were being created to eliminate it from ever being a problem moving forward. But to say, "I'm going to invest resources into pretty wonderlands and more hardcore grinding" is not my idea of productive.
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