Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
01-06-2012, 06:46 PM
I don't really see the need to implement AI commands for the Tal'Kyr Support Craft. If anything, it's the MVAM Vectors that should be improved and fixed (I've been saying they don't follow the player properly for almost a year now).

Still, I really like the OP's idea of making more use of the shuttle's cannon. It is, in fact, useless as a weapon, but having it shoot smaller objects would really improve the craft's overall performance. How about, in addition to the single cannon it already has, giving it a secondary turret with a range of 5km, that would only shoot torpedos and mines? Something like that would be really helpful and more fitting for the craft's purpose.

Still, I do realise you shouldn't make the craft too strong, as the D'Kyr does not lose a console slot or anything else for its unique "ability". It's already a free Extend Shields 1 and SIF Transfer (which I can't really say helps much...), and generally the only downside of this craft is that it dies easily, especially in PvP. And once it's destroyed, you need to wait 3min to launch it again.

PS. I remember that after one of the patches a few months back the Tal'Kyr's cannon fired a small burst of shots, instead of just one. I'm not sure if the DPS was different or not, but the animation alone was way cooler than it is now. Sadly, this change was reverted for unknown reasons. Yet it would be really great to have it back someday, even without any other changes to the craft's actual performance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
01-06-2012, 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suavek View Post
I don't really see the need to implement AI commands for the Tal'Kyr Support Craft. If anything, it's the MVAM Vectors that should be improved and fixed (I've been saying they don't follow the player properly for almost a year now).

I hate to sound inflammatory, but why SHOULDN'T the Tal'Kyr have AI commands? Note that I am not disagreeing that the MVAS needs it too; For that matter, I think ALL deployables should. It makes sense, and allows for pets to actually contribute more in combat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
01-06-2012, 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suavek View Post
I don't really see the need to implement AI commands for the Tal'Kyr Support Craft. If anything, it's the MVAM Vectors that should be improved and fixed (I've been saying they don't follow the player properly for almost a year now).

Still, I really like the OP's idea of making more use of the shuttle's cannon. It is, in fact, useless as a weapon, but having it shoot smaller objects would really improve the craft's overall performance. How about, in addition to the single cannon it already has, giving it a secondary turret with a range of 5km, that would only shoot torpedos and mines? Something like that would be really helpful and more fitting for the craft's purpose.

Still, I do realise you shouldn't make the craft too strong, as the D'Kyr does not lose a console slot or anything else for its unique "ability". It's already a free Extend Shields 1 and SIF Transfer (which I can't really say helps much...), and generally the only downside of this craft is that it dies easily, especially in PvP. And once it's destroyed, you need to wait 3min to launch it again.

PS. I remember that after one of the patches a few months back the Tal'Kyr's cannon fired a small burst of shots, instead of just one. I'm not sure if the DPS was different or not, but the animation alone was way cooler than it is now. Sadly, this change was reverted for unknown reasons. Yet it would be really great to have it back someday, even without any other changes to the craft's actual performance.
The MVAE pets do not really need much in the way of commands seems how they shoot what you shoot... What more do you need them to do? Yes, they could use a general AI upgrade to light a fire under their impulse engines when you get away from them but besides that they are fine.

The Tal'Kyr does not have a Cannon it has a Single Plasma Turret. However, just having it shoot down destroyable objects and fighters is certainly ideal as support rather than LOLFAIL adding damage against any other ship.

The CD on the Tal'kyr + the 25 crewmen who go with it are its biggest drawbacks. No reason it cannot serve its function though. The Varanus loses no slots and can pump out repair platforms like mad.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
01-07-2012, 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
The MVAE pets do not really need much in the way of commands seems how they shoot what you shoot... What more do you need them to do? Yes, they could use a general AI upgrade to light a fire under their impulse engines when you get away from them but besides that they are fine.

The Tal'Kyr does not have a Cannon it has a Single Plasma Turret. However, just having it shoot down destroyable objects and fighters is certainly ideal as support rather than LOLFAIL adding damage against any other ship.

The CD on the Tal'kyr + the 25 crewmen who go with it are its biggest drawbacks. No reason it cannot serve its function though. The Varanus loses no slots and can pump out repair platforms like mad.
The MVAE 'pets' do not always shoot what you shoot. Sometimes they just go straight up to the target and sit there, at point blank range and do nothing. This doesn't happen but maybe 20% of the time, but it is very annoying.

Also, there are times when I change targets, and 30 seconds later, they're still shooting the old one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
01-07-2012, 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remissus View Post
I hate to sound inflammatory, but why SHOULDN'T the Tal'Kyr have AI commands? Note that I am not disagreeing that the MVAS needs it too; For that matter, I think ALL deployables should. It makes sense, and allows for pets to actually contribute more in combat.
To be honest, I think that AI commands would not really influence the Tal'Kyr's performance that much, in contrast with carrier fighters, which are faster and designed to destroy, rather than support. You would have to implement several commands for something that is essentialy a bonus to an already neat ship. And even if there were some commands, what would you do with them? First off, they would work with only one craft that is deployable with a 3 min cooldown if it's destroyed (fighters can be launched every 25 or so). Second, you wouldn't order it to destroy anything or go away somewhere alone, as this is not the craft's purpose. It's supposed to stay close and provide ES1/SIF1. The only use I can think of is if you would want the craft to support your ally, not yourself. But even then the craft's performance is superficial, and you wouldn't know if it was destroyed already or not, as there's no indicator other than... not seeing it follow you.

I don't say the craft SHOULDN'T get the AI commands. I just say they wouldn't be very useful/helpful. Not to mention the devs would have to spend additional time and effort on something unnecessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
The MVAE pets do not really need much in the way of commands seems how they shoot what you shoot... What more do you need them to do? Yes, they could use a general AI upgrade to light a fire under their impulse engines when you get away from them but besides that they are fine.
Have you ever tried using Evasive Maneuvers and/or Emergency Power to Engines with MVAE pets deployed? If not then know that they won't follow you at full impulse. They will fly at their normal speed towards you, but they won't catch up with you unless you get back to them and engage full impulse near them. Only then they will follow you properly. This is not the issue with the Tal'Kyr and Saucer Separation, as they always follow the player regardles of how far he tries to run (even with EM+EPtE). This is especially irritating in PvE, as I'd like to start a battle/mission with pets deployed, but then I have to wait every time for the Red Alert status to go down, before moving further, which I hate. This is just an example of MVAM pet issues and I still claim they need more work than the Tal'Kyr.

Also the AI commands would be more useful for MVAE, as the pets are designed for combat and thus can either intercept, attack or defend a target. Not so with a support craft.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
01-07-2012, 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suavek View Post
To be honest, I think that AI commands would not really influence the Tal'Kyr's performance that much, in contrast with carrier fighters, which are faster and designed to destroy, rather than support. You would have to implement several commands for something that is essentialy a bonus to an already neat ship. And even if there were some commands, what would you do with them? First off, they would work with only one craft that is deployable with a 3 min cooldown if it's destroyed (fighters can be launched every 25 or so). Second, you wouldn't order it to destroy anything or go away somewhere alone, as this is not the craft's purpose. It's supposed to stay close and provide ES1/SIF1. The only use I can think of is if you would want the craft to support your ally, not yourself. But even then the craft's performance is superficial, and you wouldn't know if it was destroyed already or not, as there's no indicator other than... not seeing it follow you.

I don't say the craft SHOULDN'T get the AI commands. I just say they wouldn't be very useful/helpful. Not to mention the devs would have to spend additional time and effort on something unnecessary.

Have you ever tried using Evasive Maneuvers and/or Emergency Power to Engines with MVAE pets deployed? If not then know that they won't follow you at full impulse. They will fly at their normal speed towards you, but they won't catch up with you unless you get back to them and engage full impulse near them. Only then they will follow you properly. This is not the issue with the Tal'Kyr and Saucer Separation, as they always follow the player regardles of how far he tries to run (even with EM+EPtE). This is especially irritating in PvE, as I'd like to start a battle/mission with pets deployed, but then I have to wait every time for the Red Alert status to go down, before moving further, which I hate. This is just an example of MVAM pet issues and I still claim they need more work than the Tal'Kyr.

Also the AI commands would be more useful for MVAE, as the pets are designed for combat and thus can either intercept, attack or defend a target. Not so with a support craft.
For starters, a 'Passive' button would be nice so as not to cause aggro. Other buttons could include a 'Point Defense' order (for destructible torpedoes and the like), and a (recharge/cooldown) heal button for you, or an ally.

Just a thought.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
01-07-2012, 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AviKerensky View Post
The MVAE 'pets' do not always shoot what you shoot. Sometimes they just go straight up to the target and sit there, at point blank range and do nothing. This doesn't happen but maybe 20% of the time, but it is very annoying.

Also, there are times when I change targets, and 30 seconds later, they're still shooting the old one.
They tend to stick with one target until it dies. Never seem them just go inert before but I think that may be a general pet issue because it happens on occasion to my Kar'Fi's Frigates as well. Would be good if they could find out what causes that and nail it down but it will probably take time sifting through the code to see where it comes from.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Suavek View Post
To be honest, I think that AI commands would not really influence the Tal'Kyr's performance that much, in contrast with carrier fighters, which are faster and designed to destroy, rather than support. You would have to implement several commands for something that is essentialy a bonus to an already neat ship. And even if there were some commands, what would you do with them? First off, they would work with only one craft that is deployable with a 3 min cooldown if it's destroyed (fighters can be launched every 25 or so). Second, you wouldn't order it to destroy anything or go away somewhere alone, as this is not the craft's purpose. It's supposed to stay close and provide ES1/SIF1. The only use I can think of is if you would want the craft to support your ally, not yourself. But even then the craft's performance is superficial, and you wouldn't know if it was destroyed already or not, as there's no indicator other than... not seeing it follow you.

I don't say the craft SHOULDN'T get the AI commands. I just say they wouldn't be very useful/helpful. Not to mention the devs would have to spend additional time and effort on something unnecessary.

Have you ever tried using Evasive Maneuvers and/or Emergency Power to Engines with MVAE pets deployed? If not then know that they won't follow you at full impulse. They will fly at their normal speed towards you, but they won't catch up with you unless you get back to them and engage full impulse near them. Only then they will follow you properly. This is not the issue with the Tal'Kyr and Saucer Separation, as they always follow the player regardles of how far he tries to run (even with EM+EPtE). This is especially irritating in PvE, as I'd like to start a battle/mission with pets deployed, but then I have to wait every time for the Red Alert status to go down, before moving further, which I hate. This is just an example of MVAM pet issues and I still claim they need more work than the Tal'Kyr.

Also the AI commands would be more useful for MVAE, as the pets are designed for combat and thus can either intercept, attack or defend a target. Not so with a support craft.
The only command it would need to have is "Support" which would send it to support your target. If you hit it again then it would break off and come back to you. I can keep track of my Tal'Kyr pretty well and its healing is not as superficial as you might like to think. It can be a handy little friend. Right now loaning it to a friend is tricky though because if I use Full Impulse it comes back to me which I do not want but you are ALWAYS using Full Impulse... See the problem here? I want to use it to help heal my friends while I focus on the E-War game.

Considering these sorts of commands already exist for other pets I would guess it would not be a huge effort to throw some lines of code in to make this change. Not changing the ships stats any would lessen the burden on messing with it.


The MVAE pets follow you at FI the moment you exit the 10KM range. However, this can be a problem if you manage to get to an enemy at around 7~9.9KM away because they will usually not show up until the battle is drawing to a close if you are lucky. That is why I said giving them better follow AI would be more than enough. Giving them commands would be a bit over complicated considering the only other thing they do is just attack your targets. The Tal'Kyr does also sometimes get left behind but it catches up eventually. The Saucer acts like it has Separation Anxiety. (I made a funny!) It won't back off at all! Sometimes it is like "Dude... Personal Space... 10 foot bubble buddy... Just back it on up a little M'kay?"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
01-08-2012, 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan

Targeted Assistance: It would be very useful if going to Full Impulse did not unlock it from another player when you released it for them. Better yet though would be an option to command it like a Carrier commands their Pets. Be able to give the command at any time to go follow/support whatever vessel you like or call it back to you.

Too bad I can't change its weapons. I would remove the turret and add cloaked mines. Maybe that way it could do heals without drawing fire.
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