Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
01-18-2012, 12:47 PM
they could easily solve it by letting everyone who participated in the kill have the same loot. Everyone can click take items and everyone gets one of what it was. Done.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
01-18-2012, 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zehra
I said that I then start needing everything after they do and recommend everyone else do it, too.

I'm willing to bet that at least SOME of the people simply don't understand need/greed/pass, but those that abuse the system should be made to look like abusers.
I doubt that the problem is not understanding the system. The system isn't exactly new or unusual. Nor do I think "calling people out" has any effect whatsoever.

The problem, IMO, is that it is difficult to tell at a glance whether someone needed or not, and whether or not they did so legitimately. By the time you figure it out, you've likely wasted a bunch of time scanning the chat log, and lost out on 2 or 3 loot rolls. Then you have to waste more time whining about what they are doing, which will likely not accomplish anything anyway.

Click need and move along. Easier and cleaner all around. The only people that could possibly lose out are the people that really shouldn't be there in the first place, IMO. (i.e. If you actually need blue loot, then you're probably being carried by the rest of the team, anyway. Harsh? Maybe, but fair too, IMO.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
01-18-2012, 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigduckie
i dont need everything i pass almost everything. Infact I see more people greed than ever need. How do you know said person doesnt need money?

How do you prove when a person truly needs something or not?
I try to give the benefit of the doubt the first one/two times, but when someone repeatedly and consistently "needs" all the gear that drops, it's obvious they just want the loot. I'm contributing to the STF/mission too, why should I have to give up my fair chance at the loot just in case he's having some extremely lucky drops that he legitimately needs?

I too hate the Need/Greed system. It's just too open to abuse, and people have clearly shown that selfishness rules the day. It's funny because when I started doing STFs I rarely saw needers, but as time went on the practice got worse and worse until now where I rarely or never see a team who distributes things on "greed".

Those who propose everyone just give up and start "need"ing everything miss the point. Why should we accept this kind of behavior in the community? It's like saying well people will break into my house anyways so why bother to lock the door. Even though in many STFs when it's obvious there are one or more "need" *****s, there are still people who greed on loot. Perhaps they don't care and that they have enough gear, or maybe they don't realize or understand the loot system, but I don't like those people to be taken advantage of by the need crowd. Changing the loot claim system to need/pass would at least ensure everyone a fair chance.

I should add one time on Deferi I got teamed up with a group to do temple hard. Apparently the loot was "every man for themselves" but nobody told me. It was agreed that there would be no picking up of loot until the mission was over, which I followed. But after the mission, they suddenly ran out and vultured everything in sight and I didn't get a thing. From now on I'll have to watch the loot system more closely to avoid falling for this scam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTrekkingAngel
When people are selling stuff on the AH for millions of EC's, most people will need everything, even if its to repliicate it for a few credits... How else does a Lt. Commander afford nearly a million credits to get his ship running on blues.

OK, let's look at kitting out a Lt. Commander's ship in blue gear from the AH

2xbeams = 160,000 (80k each)
1x torp = 150,000
1x resil shield = 100,000
1x engine = 75,000
1x deflector = 75,000

That's half a milliion for blue MKIV gear and you haven't even thought about your consoles...

So say 3/4 of a million ECs to kit out a new toon with MKIV blue gear.

Let's look at purples...

2xbeams = 1,800,000 (900k each)
1x torp = 700,000
1x resil shield = 200,000
1x engine = 1,800,000
1x Deflector = 250,000

Nearly 5 million EC's for purple stuff on a Lt. Commander's ship, again without even looking at consoles...

I see why people click need on everything and I can see where the greedy people really are in the game without a dice roll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinitron72003 View Post
Are you on the same exchange i shop on? I been paying 10-20k for blue mkX consoles. I honestly dont know about the beams, but always leveled with whites. Never could tell the difference till RA anyway. Unless your in an elite commander level PVP team.
Mk X consoles are considerably cheaper than some of the lower Mk stuff because of supply/demand. There is an incredible overflow of Mk X blues on the exchange because of the incredible STF grind required to get STF gear. In many cases you can actually get more EC from selling Mk X blues to the NPC vendors than putting it on the exchange. Getting lower Mk blues/purples is a lot harder since you can't farm them from STFs, and hence due to the low supply the prices get pushed way up.

That said, I agree that it is a waste to invest in purple/blue stuff until you get to at least Mk X level. Especially now since you level so fast, it's just not worth it if you are playing PvE. If you're playing PvP you also should be waiting to max level anyways, since you will be at a disadvantage regarding available skills? (you get more "innate" skills as you level up)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
01-18-2012, 02:11 PM
Never liked the "Need" vs "Greed" system.

I feel a better system would be "Roll" or "Pass".

Those who chose pass would not be considered in the roll for the item. Then, the system takes into consideration the type and abiliies and class of the ones who roll and awards points to each player. Then a roll is done, bonus is added and item is then awarded.

Sure, there is a chance that an Escort captain ends up with a Purple Mk XII Science Console they can't use, but the odds of that would be greatly diminished if the game weighed it properly.

Cheers!
Suggestive_Canuck
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
01-18-2012, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormnnorm
I too hate the Need/Greed system. It's just too open to abuse, and people have clearly shown that selfishness rules the day. It's funny because when I started doing STFs I rarely saw needers, but as time went on the practice got worse and worse until now where I rarely or never see a team who distributes things on "greed".

Those who propose everyone just give up and start "need"ing everything miss the point. Why should we accept this kind of behavior in the community?
Because, anyone who actually needs blue mk X loot probably shouldn't be running STFs anyway. I mean, you said yourself that you can buy it off the exchange for a pittance. The odds of anyone actually needing the gear is vanishingly small. Clicking need is just the easy way to ensure that you don't get screwed. If you're unwilling to click the need button... well, your loss.

Until (unless, really) the system gets changed, you might as well go with the flow. I started out clicking greed too, but quickly came to the conclusion that there were really only two choices - Need or Pass. Because that is what the Greed button is, now - another Pass button. You don't have to like it, but I don't see how you can change it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
01-18-2012, 02:22 PM
Fair warning, if you need on more than two items in a row (exception being EDC/Salvage/Tech which everyone needs on anyways) in my group, and you speak in chat, I'll report-spam you as compensation for that shiny thing I might or might not have gotten.

If you keep your mouth shut you only end up on my ignore list, and I won't help you or support you in combat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
01-18-2012, 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan_Kent View Post
Fair warning, if you need on more than two items in a row (exception being EDC/Salvage/Tech which everyone needs on anyways) in my group, and you speak in chat, I'll report-spam you as compensation for that shiny thing I might or might not have gotten.

If you keep your mouth shut you only end up on my ignore list, and I won't help you or support you in combat.
People chat in STFs? This is news to me.

I also find it amusing that you are willing to "abuse" one system because you saw someone else "abuse" a different system. Ah well, a little hypocrisy never hurt anyone, right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
01-18-2012, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexiom
People chat in STFs? This is news to me.

I also find in amusing that you are willing to "abuse" one system because you saw someone else "abuse" a different system. Ah well, a little hypocrisy never hurt anyone, right?
Monkey see, Monkey doo.

Besides, I prefer to think of it as 're-purposing' one report system to fill in for lack of another.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
01-18-2012, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shonto
It seems a waste to have the need or greed option when some people always hit need.


If the Devs added a bonus for the first three Need rolls every hour, wouldn't that stop everyone from hitting need every time when looting? A cumulative penalty for every need roll would work also.
yeah.... no.
not a good idea, nor even a fair one.

Understand in PUG you need it, then you NEED, if with guild or friends, you can set your own rules. Just way it always has been. Sorry you may of lost something your wanted, but everyone has.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
01-18-2012, 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan_Kent View Post
Monkey see, Monkey doo.

Besides, I prefer to think of it as 're-purposing' one report system to fill in for lack of another.
Well, good luck with that. At best, the most you will accomplish is to annoy some poor Cryptic customer service rep who has to look at the report. Although, I would bet dollars to donuts that they have an automated system for spam reports that just files the reports in the trash if the accused isn't actually spamming. Or maybe just files them there regardless, judging by gold spammers in ESD.
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