Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
01-21-2012, 12:35 PM
@Kreael

A couple of things worth noting is that you might want to change out 2 of the particle generators for 2 graviton generators. The reason for this is that while you do increase the Kinetic damage of the GW with it you will do more overall damage with 2 of the graviton. The reason for this is that the closer to the center of the singularity the more damage it does and the graviton generators will keep them in the middle.

I would also drop the energy weapons all together as well. Without the tetryon consoles your energy weapons will do very little damage and with only one lt boff station you cant boost it all that well either.

Since you have high kinetic damage I would recommend Mines in the back. Energy type don't make a Difference in this case so feel free to mix them up a bit. Also the tractor mines are also a good choice because there are a few targets you cannot out maneuver making it difficult for your firing arc.

I know I'm bias and My build is in a previous post.

If you want to talk about it further let me know.

Another good build is if you have all the intrepid versions and use photon torps.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
01-21-2012, 01:16 PM
I've been using a Tachyon Beam III/Charged Particle Pulse III build for quite some time on my science officer that has 2 phaser arrays and 4 photon torpedo launchers (2 on fore/back each) with Torpedo Volley I/II on hand (though I've also tried Spread I/II as well). Typically, I run with max aux, and middling weapon power - the phasers are mostly to apply Target Subsystem attacks, though.

I've found it pretty entertaining for PvE, but it's not impressive in PvP or in STFs.

I prefer TCIII and CPPIII to a shield draining Tyken Rift build because I feel shields are down too briefly even with power drain. It might be okay with a ship that can provide a really good damage spike (you'd find that with tricobalts), but at least with my build, the shields usually stay down in PvE. So, at the latter half of any fight, the sustained DPS on weak shields gets pretty nice.

It's a whole other matter in PvP, though. I've done some dueling against one of my acquaintances, @StarArmy, an engineer captain then commanding a Star Cruiser. We had this really long battle where neither of us would die, with me having more close calls than he. Eventually, though, my sensor analysis on him was high and I had an idea of his powers and when he used them... so I taxed him until he used them, smacked long cooldowns on him with SNB and then hammered away at him as hard as I could along with pulling all the stops like Photonic Fleet and targeting both engine subsystems and having tractor beam ready to impede him from running away.

Though, from what I heard after the fight, my subnucleonic beam did most of the work rather than my setup. But, the above can get the job done. It's just not spectacular at it... which doesn't make it very competitive in PvP, I guess.

I figure the best powers to have around for a science ship in team play is a Gravity Well/Scramble Sensor combination. I just don't get how those guys manage to deal damage when using that loadout not in Team PvP or STFs, and in solo fights. Must get really tedious.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
01-21-2012, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_mc_1 View Post
@Kreael

A couple of things worth noting is that you might want to change out 2 of the particle generators for 2 graviton generators. The reason for this is that while you do increase the Kinetic damage of the GW with it you will do more overall damage with 2 of the graviton. The reason for this is that the closer to the center of the singularity the more damage it does and the graviton generators will keep them in the middle.

I would also drop the energy weapons all together as well. Without the tetryon consoles your energy weapons will do very little damage and with only one lt boff station you cant boost it all that well either.

Since you have high kinetic damage I would recommend Mines in the back. Energy type don't make a Difference in this case so feel free to mix them up a bit. Also the tractor mines are also a good choice because there are a few targets you cannot out maneuver making it difficult for your firing arc.
Thats why I run tractor beam 3. Yes it is a bit silly but thats 17 seconds of the enemy stuck in the middle of the GW. The generators also help out the plasma torps.

I tried mines a long time ago and never really cared for them, and they do have lag potential. But I do agree that my turrets are not all that useful. Later today I'll try mounting a tri-cobalt in the rear with a mine launcher to two to see how it goes though. That would also allow me to drop weapon power to nothing so I could likely swap my engineer powers around a bit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
01-21-2012, 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreael
I tried mines a long time ago and never really cared for them, and they do have lag potential. But I do agree that my turrets are not all that useful. Later today I'll try mounting a tri-cobalt in the rear with a mine launcher to two to see how it goes though. That would also allow me to drop weapon power to nothing so I could likely swap my engineer powers around a bit.
Fair enough. I would only put one more argument for mines and that is stfs. In KA you know exactly the path the probes will follow. If nothing else I would keep them in my inventory for that reason.

Personally I don't care for mines myself. Only escorts can do anything with them with the dispersal patterns but an escort is highly maneuverable and tacs have high dps buffs so they are better off with almost any other weapons type. With mines you hope your target hits them and the previous ones disappear if you relaunch them.

Mines do go hand in hand with torps on paper and specing but the people who usually do torpedo boats can't utilize them normally.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
01-21-2012, 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakaishin
" NOTE: Pottsey did NOT fight me with the torpedo boat, but instead used his conventional PvP build, as I used mine. "
Just to confirm Hakaishin refit to PVP but I did not and used the Torpedo boat in PvP, that was why I was surprised when you died. I guess I passed the challenge but I fully agree and accept that the one kill I got was very unlikely to happen again. Unless one of us makes a mistake, or one of us got a lucky group of critical's in a row there would most likely have been zero more kills if we kept going longer then we did.

I also agree when 1v1 against a hard target with shields the Galaxy X none torpedo setup is better. The torp cruiser build I used works and would have taken out the cube solo but damage is average at best and much slower than the Galaxy X none torp build. Although I believe I took down the hull faster than you, that were not made up by the time it took me to take down the shields. So overall I lost solo.

Where the torp build excels is when you have other ships nearby, as soon as the shields get low or down the torp damage increases massively. To me it seems a torp build is ok for teams for Elite or solo normal, but not ideal for solo Elite. It has to be planed into the team on Elite.

One big mistake I made in the STF is not confirming/asking the method being used before hand. I went in with Torpedo Spread III expecting to fly close range hitting an entire group of probes at once. The method Hakaishin group used was not one I have seen before. The method was to stay outside 10km of the cube, hitting one probe at a time which I am not convinced is the best way at least for my setup. This cut down my damage output by around x5 if not more as mines where useless. I much prefer to get point blank, torp spread multiple none shielded targets and drop Quantum with Tricobalt mines point blank. Although the rest of the plan I fully agree with. Perhaps it would work if I got close but the rest of the team used the 10km method?

Anyway in short if you plan to take a torpedo build into Elite make sure you take the correct BO skill and make sure you stay near some shield strip builds. Also for the method Hakaishin's group used High Yield III would have worked better and swapping the mines for turrets would make more sense.


" Can the Hakaishin Dreadnought 2-shot cruisers? Tested answer: Yes."
I just want to clarify that in that test I was stationary, no buffs running, did not shoot Tricobalt down and a critical hit was needed. Although I guess against most other ships a critical hit is not needed. So the answer is still yes but against a few ships it's not as easy as it sounds. You have to be a smart pilot to pull it off as well and not use auto fire.

The main reason it did not work against me in the real 1v1 match is my mines plus torp spread took out the Tricobalt plus with buffs I have an unusually high hull resistance. I can see how it could be devastating and often a 2 shot kill or near death in bigger match's when a pilot is distracted by another ship and the galaxy decloaked or just approaches unnoticed at just the right moment.

For PvP the reason I find a torpedo build effective in PvP is that you hit multiple targets at once. Every so often one of the targets has low or zero shields and you do massive damage. Mostly I run with Torp spread II, III and just spam torps. The raw damage alone drains shield a fair amount as well. Often there will be a sci ship striping shields, an escort that just alpha striked someone's shields down. That's when you strike and spread III helps you get lucky strikes on random targets.

One thing I would love to try just for fun is a team full of Transphasic torpedo builds all using Torp spread II, III all with x2 Transphasic mines fitted . I wonder how much damage that would do if they all hit the same shield tanked ship?
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