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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-29-2012, 02:43 PM
I think while it would be an interesting thing to have as toggle, the ship should after taking so much damage, drop the armor on its own, re-activating the shield envelope.

Now some might make the claim this would turn a science ship into a super tank, but perhaps prevent healing effects from working on the ship till the armor system dropped?

Also it would be nice in this armored state if tractor beams did not hold your ship but did deplete its armor effect (they're not holding your ship because they're taking off layers of armor)

This would reflect more what we saw on screen in Endgame, and be really awesome to 'Deploy Armor' before going into a fire-fight
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
01-29-2012, 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyman2480 View Post
I think while it would be an interesting thing to have as toggle, the ship should after taking so much damage, drop the armor on its own, re-activating the shield envelope.

Now some might make the claim this would turn a science ship into a super tank, but perhaps prevent healing effects from working on the ship till the armor system dropped?

Also it would be nice in this armored state if tractor beams did not hold your ship but did deplete its armor effect (they're not holding your ship because they're taking off layers of armor)

This would reflect more what we saw on screen in Endgame, and be really awesome to 'Deploy Armor' before going into a fire-fight
I always thought the armor should give tractor immunity as compensation for its limited duration, but if it were to become an indefinite toggle, I wouldn't push it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
01-31-2012, 08:01 AM
the reason why the 15 sec cooldown is in place is becasue when the retrofits released(season 2 iirc)the klinks and fed escort/cruiser owners were complaining that the generator made it a super tank(this was b4 viral matrix/target aux or any other ability would stop it)escorts cause u couldn't blow it up even with 5-6 fully specced BoPs on it(been there done that)and could out tank cruisers.so they cut the CD in half and reduced its effectivness by making it nerf friendly.this is coming from an engineering VA who had it as his first VA ship cause saucer sep is a rip off lol.
if it was put on a toggle tho in its current condition it would be fair and i may bring it out of mothballs on my main(my sci alt uses one tho)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
01-31-2012, 08:23 AM
I was really wanting to get this ship but now...dont think i'll waste my CP on it. The AG was the whole reason for it. I dont expect it to be all powerful, but it shouldn't be the weaksauce im hearing to to be. i've already wasted a good bit of CP due to not knowing any better...i thought "refits" would do that...refit my ship..not give me a new one...but its all good. live and learn. But with what im reading and seeing peoples points of views, i would make it a toggle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
01-31-2012, 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastergenera1 View Post
the reason why the 15 sec cooldown is in place is becasue when the retrofits released(season 2 iirc)the klinks and fed escort/cruiser owners were complaining that the generator made it a super tank(this was b4 viral matrix/target aux or any other ability would stop it)escorts cause u couldn't blow it up even with 5-6 fully specced BoPs on it(been there done that)and could out tank cruisers.so they cut the CD in half and reduced its effectivness by making it nerf friendly.this is coming from an engineering VA who had it as his first VA ship cause saucer sep is a rip off lol.
if it was put on a toggle tho in its current condition it would be fair and i may bring it out of mothballs on my main(my sci alt uses one tho)
Exactly. It has hard counters now, so there's no reason for the timer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
01-31-2012, 12:34 PM
Does the Armor still have 90% resistance? If so, can you not see how a toggled, Armored Science ship spamming torps and a full range offensive Science abilities with 125 power to Aux and 100+ power to Eng would be game breakingly overpowered?

As a Eng Cruiser Jockey, I have no problem with toggled Armor with a short cooldown for Intrepids. BUT, it should have the same cons as my Dreadnought's cloak. NO weapons. Full stop. NO shareable heals/buffs or offensive Science skills. If you want to tank up and let NPC's wail on you quite pointlessly or if you want to hurt your team in PvP by staying turtled the whole match, that's fine. The cloak is intended for getting into position and striking. If you want to use the Armor, as I believe it's intended (in the game), to get away and heal/allow your offensive Sci skills to cool down before unleashing all those attacks, cool!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
01-31-2012, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudley_Morton
Does the Armor still have 90% resistance? If so, can you not see how a toggled, Armored Science ship spamming torps and a full range offensive Science abilities with 125 power to Aux and 100+ power to Eng would be game breakingly overpowered?

As a Eng Cruiser Jockey, I have no problem with toggled Armor with a short cooldown for Intrepids. BUT, it should have the same cons as my Dreadnought's cloak. NO weapons. Full stop. NO shareable heals/buffs or offensive Science skills. If you want to tank up and let NPC's wail on you quite pointlessly or if you want to hurt your team in PvP by staying turtled the whole match, that's fine. The cloak is intended for getting into position and striking. If you want to use the Armor, as I believe it's intended (in the game), to get away and heal/allow your offensive Sci skills to cool down before unleashing all those attacks, cool!
Tachyon Beam got a severe nerf with the changes to Deflectors in the Call to Arms update and the introduction of the Power Insulators. Even with full auxiliary power, Charged Particle Burst, and Tractor Beam with a Duty Officer, it's incredibly difficult to get an actual shield-stripping build going. Maybe you'd be able to bring down a shield facing with Tyken's Rift, but Power Insulators protect against that, and it puts Tachyon Beam on shared cool down. An armored shield-stripping torpedo boat really isn't as good on paper as it was three months ago.

Not to mention the only semi-reliable torpedo boat build in the game involves using rapid-fire Transphasics, which do pitiful damage compared to other torpedoes. Call to Arms neutered offensive Science abilities, and the armor already cripples the user's offense by restricting them to projectile weapons. Tricobalts aren't even an option because of their 60-second timer and 15-second shared cool down, so that eliminates the build's best option for one-on-one spike damage. All you have to do is maneuver out of its torpedo arcs and heal yourself, which isn't that hard.

You brought up the Dreadnought Cruiser's cloaking device as an example. Unlike the Dreadnought, the Long Range Science Vessel refit is constantly vulnerable to being targeted with the Ablative Generator active, and it has a reliable hard counter any build can use. It's not the super-tank it used to be. Target Auxiliary Subsystems and Viral Matrix made sure of that.
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