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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-01-2012, 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned_Turner
and ur right the MACO is defenetly the best shield, but it seems like it doesnt work after last patch
That's the point of this thread. The shield was broken to begin with, giving 90% damage reduction. With the last patch, it is now 'working as intended' with a 10% damage reduction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-01-2012, 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinumbar
That's the point of this thread. The shield was broken to begin with, giving 90% damage reduction. With the last patch, it is now 'working as intended' with a 10% damage reduction.
i see the patchnotes and i now the facts, i dont understand that how it could be that a normal mkXII covariantshield now works better, with maco i feel like havin no shield. every time i tried to tank the taccube without healer he killed my macoshield instant, than i take the aegis and see it works like with maco before patchin. while tankin the taccube i never give him the chance to shot me with is overload or torpedos, most time iam above him, that way i stay alive and i hold the thread for his full lifespan. i cant understand why this no longer is workin with the macoshield but with aegis.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-01-2012, 01:56 PM
@Ned_Turner

the build isn't so much an off-tank as much so as it is a balanced high dps, high defense build.....it gives the defenses you need to kill your enemy long before they kill you. In elite STFs theirs no way you can tank a fully functioning tact cube indefinitely, because eventually your gonna get hit by the borgs shield neutralizer ability and then the tac cube will laugh at you and kill you with a 1 shot torpedoe, or hit you with one of the heavy plasma torpedoes if your not paying attention. The idea is to be able to kill the tactical cube before you reach the point where you no longer have the ability to stay alive. This is done by having a strong dps build to back up your tanking capabilities.With the build I linked to your able to dish out between 8000 - 32000 damage a second and sustain that damage. Now with a team of good players, (good players meaning players who have builds that are high end competitve, dare I say teir 1 builds, you'll be able to tank the tac cube long enough to stay alive. No build can match up to the Elite tac cube, they are designed to be a 5man boss fight, and thats what they are....so measuring builds against the tac cubes isn't a good way to compare the effectiveness of a build.

You mentioned that I had no points in Starship Armor Reinforcements, thats because due to the current meta (meta meaning current programming behind how tankability works) there is no effective way to hull tank (the 15 seconds of ablative armor is the only exception). Therefore you have to shield tank in this game. Hence why abilities such as Extend Shields are so powerful in pvp currently. And since shield tanking is the only option, there is no point in putting points into Armor Reinforcements sense that skill is used to help beef up your defenses against projectile weapons. Projectile weapons are only effective against a hull, any projectile hitting a shield facing does horribly pitiful damage, therefore with my build, you never had to worry about your shields being down since all the defensive capabilites are based around increasing shield resistance and shield regeneration (aka you'll never have to worry about taking painful hit from a projectile weapons).

You also mentioned that im not able to hull heal effectively because i don't have a high aux power. Since the build is designed as a shield tanking build (due to current meta) you shields will always be up, therefore what little hull damage you actually take; wither its through bleed through or a split second in a phaser proc turning off your shields you'll be able to heal yourself back up to full while your shields continue to take the brunt of the damage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-01-2012, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnorok21
(aka you'll never have to worry about taking painful hit from a projectile weapons).

okay what about donatra torpedospread, could u compensate it with this setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnorok21
your gonna get hit by the borgs shield neutralizer ability and then the tac cube will laugh at you and kill you with a 1 shot torpedoe
first, the taccube cant hit me with a torpedo, no way.
second, if the shield are down i can stay long enough to bring it back online.
i am tankin the taccube every day without support from a healer over his full lifespan and now with the aegis it works too like before with maco, iam fine with this settings but wondering about the maco why this is less powerful as aegis now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-01-2012, 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by claydermunch View Post
Aegis is only really useful as a full set for example (and do not let people kid you, its still a viable and good set)
Everyone generally agrees that the Aegis Engines in combat are some sweet engines but besides that what exactly makes the Aegis set good? I mean it LOOKS cool but the shield is pathetic as it is not even up to a full Cap3 and the Reactive Shielding, even boosted, mostly just protects you from DoT's which is nice and all but solidly lackluster compared to the other sets. The Borg set might well give you a solid healing boost because of DoT's or Tractor Beams by comparison. MACO Provides extra power and Omega lets you move faster.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-01-2012, 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnorok21
You mentioned that I had no points in Starship Armor Reinforcements, thats because due to the current meta (meta meaning current programming behind how tankability works) there is no effective way to hull tank (the 15 seconds of ablative armor is the only exception). Therefore you have to shield tank in this game. Hence why abilities such as Extend Shields are so powerful in pvp currently. And since shield tanking is the only option, there is no point in putting points into Armor Reinforcements sense that skill is used to help beef up your defenses against projectile weapons. Projectile weapons are only effective against a hull, any projectile hitting a shield facing does horribly pitiful damage, therefore with my build, you never had to worry about your shields being down since all the defensive capabilites are based around increasing shield resistance and shield regeneration (aka you'll never have to worry about taking painful hit from a projectile weapons).

You also mentioned that im not able to hull heal effectively because i don't have a high aux power. Since the build is designed as a shield tanking build (due to current meta) you shields will always be up, therefore what little hull damage you actually take; wither its through bleed through or a split second in a phaser proc turning off your shields you'll be able to heal yourself back up to full while your shields continue to take the brunt of the damage.
While I would not waste points in Skill based Hull Resistance (Too expensive for the results and MUCH easier to get the boost through skills/devices/consoles) the idea that Hull Tanking does not work is a joke. For many ships it is a very bad idea but for Cruisers Hull Tanking is extremely viable. I can survive much better on my hull in a Cruiser than I could ever HOPE to with my shields. Cruisers have the right number of Engineering BOFFs to make Hull Tanking a reality and have enough Hull to get the job done.

As for shields I have always been able to rip shields down in mere seconds in PvP and once they are gone a Cruiser which lacks the ability to turn itself is going to be helpless to avoid my death strike if it cannot hull tank properly. If it IS set up right though it will survive the Alpha (especially with help from friends) and be able to regain its composure.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned_Turner
okay what about donatra torpedospread, could u compensate it with this setting first, the taccube cant hit me with a torpedo, no way. second, if the shield are down i can stay long enough to bring it back online. i am tankin the taccube every day without support from a healer over his full lifespan and now with the aegis it works too like before with maco, iam fine with this settings but wondering about the maco why this is less powerful as aegis now.

If you mean the Heavy Torp... That is one thing but what about its normal Torps which can deal insane damage? At least if we are talking the Elite version.

Whatdo you mean by the MACO being less powerful than the Aegis?... You mean why does it have less Cap? If that is your question it is because it is Resilient Shield NOT a Covariant and should NOT have a higher Cap than a well setup Covariant.

Other than that though, it is far superior to the Aegis shield in every imaginable way.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-01-2012, 03:05 PM
All you need for the Donatra torpedoe spread is tact team 1, with at least half shields to all facing, and your fine. the tact teams compensates and cushions the blow for you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-02-2012, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan

If you mean the Heavy Torp... That is one thing but what about its normal Torps which can deal insane damage? At least if we are talking the Elite version.
Yes, we re talkin about elite versions.
And no , if u choose ur position correct, the taccube never can get u as target to hit u with a torpedo or his beam overload. and his drain skills , the engineer is able to resist them by using the correct skills.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
Whatdo you mean by the MACO being less powerful than the Aegis?
i mean this time after the last patch, it wont work better than normal resilant shield. i cant heal my self while tankin the taccube since the last patch, the damage is to much. i tried varios shields and noted with aegis i can stay alive and heal my self while tankin the taccube and i dont need a healer to help me for and this i do over his full lifespan.
so my thought was that the maco shield is broken
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