Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-08-2012, 09:20 PM
I hope they do have a chance, but at the same time I hope they don't. Really from a wholly narrative point of view. We still have a few things hanging out in the open that still need to be resolved before we open up another major plotline that may also sit unresolved. The Undine from several missions (and Terradome) and the Iconians from the Romulan FE stick out most in my mind. I personally want some resolution to some of this stuff before we start dredging up more plotlines so as to shove content in. It makes the universe feel a bit too crowded with things like that, which are potentially very dangerous, just linger.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic that there's this line of continuity we're getting from DS9. Absolutely ecstatic! Just really feels that from a narrative standpoint, there's far too much going on at once.
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Posts: 120
# 12
02-08-2012, 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamRadio18
Ok
2,800 ships is a lot. That is a lot of ships. But they are now outdated by over 30 years. We won the last war, and our technology has improved by so much, it seems like we should be able to beat them. Not easily, but it shouldn't be hard. Now, 2,800 ships is a lot no matter how old they are, but if the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and everybody else join forces, perhaps we could win without loosing to much.

What do you guys think?
I don't think they will in a standard fight against everyone but I also think they'll emerge at a point when there's only 20 or so Federation and Klingon ships in range of DS9, story-wise.

We take out a hundred or so but the rest immediately realize:

A) They're weaker

B) There is no non-aggression pact with Bajor

So while we're busy fighting a hundred of them, the rest move in on Bajor, raze a few cities and occupy with half a million Jem'Hadar before we can get reinforcements. Unless we can persuade the Founders to intervene or cut off the flow of Ketracel White, they will take command of Bajor's defense force and upgrade their ships. But if we intervene the wrong way, they'll be prepared to blow Bajor to smithereens.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-08-2012, 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc_foxtrot View Post
I hope they do have a chance, but at the same time I hope they don't. Really from a wholly narrative point of view. We still have a few things hanging out in the open that still need to be resolved before we open up another major plotline that may also sit unresolved. The Undine from several missions (and Terradome) and the Iconians from the Romulan FE stick out most in my mind. I personally want some resolution to some of this stuff before we start dredging up more plotlines so as to shove content in. It makes the universe feel a bit too crowded with things like that, which are potentially very dangerous, just linger.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic that there's this line of continuity we're getting from DS9. Absolutely ecstatic! Just really feels that from a narrative standpoint, there's far too much going on at once.
There are ways it could be folded in. For instance, the Dominion could disavow the 2800 and send us means to fend them off... and they could pledge loyalty to the Iconians.
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Posts: 120
# 14
02-08-2012, 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
I don't think they will in a standard fight against everyone but I also think they'll emerge at a point when there's only 20 or so Federation and Klingon ships in range of DS9, story-wise.

We take out a hundred or so but the rest immediately realize:

A) They're weaker

B) There is no non-aggression pact with Bajor

So while we're busy fighting a hundred of them, the rest move in on Bajor, raze a few cities and occupy with half a million Jem'Hadar before we can get reinforcements. Unless we can persuade the Founders to intervene or cut off the flow of Ketracel White, they will take command of Bajor's defense force and upgrade their ships. But if we intervene the wrong way, they'll be prepared to blow Bajor to smithereens.
Yeppers, they're bred for war and conflict, this doesnt mean they're daft and charge in heedlessly every time, as impressive as that charge may be.

They'll be much more of a threat in the flesh than in a ship, I don't think a reliable counter measure was developed for the subspace mines and IDK if you've fought any Jem'hadar in game lately but...
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# 15
02-08-2012, 09:49 PM
I personally can wait in the lounge at DS9 until they get more ships... just to make it a fair fight. :p
Lt. Commander
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# 16
02-08-2012, 09:57 PM
I am of the opinion that, while I doubt the 2800 ships can truly win a war with the Federation, Klingons, and anyone else who wants a piece of them, they do have a chance to fulfill the final dream of the female changeling: To leave them with a victory that tastes as bitter as defeat.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-08-2012, 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan_Kent View Post
We have future Defiants with cloak, quad canons, and after this last patch AMS and God-only-knows what.

Nobody could stand against THAT.
Q


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# 18
02-08-2012, 10:16 PM
Consider a few things regarding the state of the Federation:

A) The Federation is in NO shape for another war front, reason:

1- The Borg have returned, making incursions on Federation territory. With that being said, most of the advance Federation Warships have been called to arm in the Gamma quadrant and to protect the Sol system from the Borg.

2- The War against the Klingon Empire has taken its toll on the Federation. In other words our losses keep mounting. Even though we may have advance in technology by 30yrs, due to the war on multiple fronts, the Federation has been using ships that were in mothball for years - such as the Centaur Class, the Oberth Class, the Excelsior Class, and the old Galaxy Class etc...

3- The True Way will be involved - and they have advance Cardassian and Jem Hedar technology. I am pretty sure they will make a push to assist the 2800.

4- The 2800 are currently an unknown - they may have been in limbo for 30yrs - but who is to say when they appeared somewhere they didn't advance their technology.

5- The Romulan civil war is also causing much havoc in the Federation front

6- Though the Breen may NOT show up during the 2800 FE, they are still part of the Dominion Union

7- our technology can still be counteracted - besides 30yrs has not advance the Federation far enough to the point where our vessels are super superior - It is to my understanding that current military technology makes a huge leap every 20yrs or so, and even that, by not much.

(take the M-16 auto rifle U.S. made - the thing is just as lethal as it was first introduced - despite the various new weapons that have been introduced. Same applies with certain warships in the U.S. Navy)

8- One final note and its the most IMPORTANT one - after the Star Trek Nemesis event - The Federation began to concentrate on its original goal (EXPLORATION) - The Federation was never about warfare but about exploration. I am pretty sure they concentrated in advancing science over military warfare tech.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-08-2012, 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamRadio18
Ok
2,800 ships is a lot. That is a lot of ships. But they are now outdated by over 30 years. We won the last war, and our technology has improved by so much, it seems like we should be able to beat them. Not easily, but it shouldn't be hard. Now, 2,800 ships is a lot no matter how old they are, but if the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and everybody else join forces, perhaps we could win without loosing to much.

What do you guys think?
You forget we now have a different situation.

The Federation and the Klingons are at war with each other and with the Borg.
The Rormulans have lost their homeworld and are still trying to recover. Furthermore they are in conflict with the Klingons and are more or less in a civil war. Last time we needed the Romulans to fight the Dominon. This time they won't help much.
The Cardassians are still rebuilding and recovering from the last war. Like the Romulans they have sever internal problems including a splinter group of Jem'Hadar and Cardassians who will probably ally with the 2800.
Also don't forget the Breen. From all factions in the first war they lost least. As far as we know they might now be stronger than before the first war.

In addition we don't know how the Dominion will react. Will they ignore their former troops? Will they start a new war and join the battle? Will they ally with the Federation?


So on there own they don't have a chance. They will catch the Federation/Klingon by surprise and will cause damage but ultimately they will be defeated. But in the greater picture they may be able to crush the Federation and the Klingons. Because in the current state of things Federation/Klingons will lose a war like the first one.
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# 20
02-08-2012, 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dribyelruh View Post
2800 ships is nothing. I'm sure most STO players have blown up more ships than that single handedly, especially those that were around at launch. :p
This

And this makes those story plots where the enemy is oh so strong that we don't stand a chance so laughable, since we will in the end trash the entire 2800 ships alone. Repeatedly.
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