Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 An idea for PvP
02-10-2012, 11:00 AM
I know that there are teams who have played this game a lot and perfected the art of PvP warfare in it. That is not a problem at all. The problem that I would like to address is for the rest of us, the ones who just want to join a PvP battle and play for fun - win or loose. As it stands now, games I join are mostly a team who obviously plays together often versus randoms. This can't be fun for the people who have spent so much time perfecting their ships and tactics as they get to use about 1/10th of their total ability, and it isn't fun for the randoms getting absolutely stomped either.

Before anyone says it: yes, I could just get better, join a PvP fleet, and man up. I just don't want to. I want to be able to hop on, play a few games that are at least a little balanced, and then do something else. I imagine that there are others who feel the same way. Lower level PvP is really good for this, but I really don't want to keep restarting characters over and over - I like the PvE and my ship and crew, etc.

Another problem is that new people are going to get discouraged if they are put into too many PvP matches like the ones I have described and the game will stagnate. I was around in the beginning and know that random matches can be tons of fun - both teams working out strategies with strangers or just doing the best they can with what they're given.

Enough whining, here's the idea: have a separate game type for teams to fight each other, and a pub lobby that only accepts groups of 3 or less (and maybe more overall captains) for people like me who just want to have some fun and do the best they can. Everyone wins; the teams get to have an actual challenge and the new and the less serious players have a place to go and have a good time shooting each other. I'm not holding my breath for this change - there are lots of other things to be done, I'm sure, but I just wanted to put my thoughts out there and see what others think.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-11-2012, 11:10 AM
Agreed. It would be nice for the randoms to just face randoms if they choose to, and honestly i think most fleet pvp premades would enjoy actually getting a challenge from time to time instead of roflstomping randoms. As a klingon that stalks the war zones i can tell you no resistance after a while gets boring.

ever wonder why borg walk so slow, even when attacking? - Their freaking bored that's why.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-11-2012, 12:23 PM
Here's a question for you guys that support the "random only" ques.

Just how many premades. True premades are there on in a given night?

Answer? 1 maybe 2 if you're lucky.

What are they supposed to do? sit in a 5 man que and do nothing? Or not get to play with their friends in pvp? (and PvE sucks... which is why most of us opvpers don't do it)

Most premades are also friends outside of the team. They want to play together. (this is why they became a premade in the first place)

Also how are you supposed to get better if all you have to do is face enemies that... well let's face it are hardly better than the NPCs you shoot at in exploration missions all the time?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-11-2012, 12:31 PM
As Mavairo says there are not that many premades on anymore... all that would happen is they would start Quing up solo... as they likely all play fed or klink they will just que the right side and end up with 2-5 of there guys against the randoms anyway.

The better solution is this... understand that we are all here too have fun... no most of us don't find 5 man heavy loaded teams fun all the time vs new players either. I will que now and then with 3 or 4 friends, cause even if most of the matches are not much challenge, we do get one or two good matches a night and playing with them is still fun. Anyway I was getting too the solution part....

Join OrganizedPvP chat channel. The info is in a sticky at the top of this forum.

There is ALWAYS conversations going on which are fun too watch and take part in sometimes.... they are often talking about game... which might be helpful for you. You can always ask questions and likely get good answers. You can also ask if anyone would like to team up with a newer player for some fun pvp and perhaps too even help show you the ropes. I can tell you know that if you ask nicely and are sincere about playing the game that most of us care about... you WILL have people willing to que with you and give you tips too help you play better. Not many players are all crazy serious here. Other MMOS have that STO doesn't Opvp is mostly filled with a bunch of closet and full out trek geeks that will be more then helpful, we want PvP to grow not shrink. Sign up and have fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-11-2012, 12:41 PM
You're being awfully hard on the pugs; it's much more fun to have a battle with a person in PvP than it is to fight the endless drones of the story missions. You ask how are we supposed to get better? We need to be able to fight people who do not have the game down to a science. You can't get better by blowing up in 2 seconds under an alpha strike every time you get a little close to the other team. If there really aren't many premade teams on most of the time, have a pro queue and a just for fun queue. That way the guys who have their stuff set up perfectly can have a challenge and the rest can have a good time.

My entire point is that most of us can't have fun with PvP because of the high skill that others have acquired from years of play. Those with the high skill should be able to have the fun of a competitive match while the other who don't play PvP as much can have fun fighting amongst themselves.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-11-2012, 12:59 PM
It's not like anyone is unwilling to help and you have to learn from scratch like we did though.

Just ask for help. Or hell just search this very forum man. You roll cruiser right? http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=249906 For cruiser newbies.

I'll make one for Escorts and Sci ships as I wind down that thread. There's still a few more builds I need to post (mostly Excelsior, Vorcha, and Star Cruiser related ones, along with consoles and DOFF effects, which most of us are still figuring out too as we go.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-11-2012, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stajway View Post
You're being awfully hard on the pugs; it's much more fun to have a battle with a person in PvP than it is to fight the endless drones of the story missions. You ask how are we supposed to get better? We need to be able to fight people who do not have the game down to a science. You can't get better by blowing up in 2 seconds under an alpha strike every time you get a little close to the other team. If there really aren't many premade teams on most of the time, have a pro queue and a just for fun queue. That way the guys who have their stuff set up perfectly can have a challenge and the rest can have a good time.

My entire point is that most of us can't have fun with PvP because of the high skill that others have acquired from years of play. Those with the high skill should be able to have the fun of a competitive match while the other who don't play PvP as much can have fun fighting amongst themselves.
I would like to agree with you pro que... but there are not that many pros quing is my point. The few that do are going too que anyway. It won't take more then 2 of them on a team too give you the exact same results your getting now. I am not trying to be hard on anyone. I am simply suggesting that the best solution is too join the PvP community as it where... join the Organizedpvp channel... not every player in the channel is Uber Fantastic Pug Ripper... most of them are there too have fun and play the game. My point is you do not have to que alone all the time. If you join the channel and get too know a few people you will be welcomed to team with other people that are playing the game for fun as well. The fact that they have been at the game longer then you have doesn't make them bullies. We are pretty much all hoping that newer players keep quing up (not as punching bags) but as people wanting to get better and have fun. I agree with you mindless pve forever is boring... and quing up to get stomped by people with 2 years of xp on you is likely frustrating as well....

However STO has a very welcoming community of PvPers more so then most other MMOS I have played. Join the channel and just watch the conversations at first if you want. See that everyone here is just having fun... if you choose too engage and go flying with another person you may find yourself in some higher skilled games (on your team for sure) and you will learn more about the game. I am not saying "get better" and suck it up... I'm saying relax join the community and you will get better... and even if you don't you'll have more fun. (not everyone that pvps lots is fantastic, fun doesn't always mean Uber PvP team)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-11-2012, 03:34 PM
take into account to that most pvp vets know each other through opvp and all it takes are 2 of them to turn the tide of battle in a pvp match.

thats all it takes. 2 people who know what theyre doing to turn the tide...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-11-2012, 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
take into account to that most pvp vets know each other through opvp and all it takes are 2 of them to turn the tide of battle in a pvp match.

thats all it takes. 2 people who know what theyre doing to turn the tide...
2 of us. In a channel where on average 40 to 60 of us are on at any given night, when there's only say about maybe 20-30 people in the ques.

That's really good odds of getting a face roll by an enemy pug if you don't know anyone. Let alone those nights the cryptic que gods really hate the average puggers, and we opvpers keep getting teamed up in groups of 4 to 5 strong at a time by totally random chance.

That's not even including randoms from our own fleets that we also know who aren't part of opvp.

To illustrate this I'll have a screen of what happened with Aytanhi and I getting qued together randomly. Then we decided to fly together for abit (till the cryptic que gods forcibly separated us) in a few minutes in one of the matches the que gods really hated the puggers cause we got a 3rd from OPVP in team randomly. (It was late and I can't remember your name I'm sorry who ever you were you were awesome though!) This was the second match he and I got randomly put together. There was one guy from OPVP on the opposing team and he was the one that got the kill on me.
http://s41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...0-23-46-29.jpg

this is after we got seperated and Another OPVPer and I got teamed up http://s41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...1-00-08-56.jpg

Still think random ques are going to stop the face rolls? This is exactly why we don't think so.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-12-2012, 06:53 AM
I can appreciate that you all are trying to be magnanimous and offer for us poor puggers, avenues to 'get better.' If the hint of sarcasm i'm picking up isn't there then i apologize. Please realize though even for an expert pvper with a perfect setup, being stuck on a team with 4 other typical scrubs and facing a premade - you aren't going to turn the tide unless that premade is crap.

I understand that the queue is light and that even if you did institute this idea, there would be ways to work around it. No solution is perfect when people are involved; but steps can be taken to improve the experience none the less.

To the poster above, that sorta of all or nothing thinking is unconstructive. Games have instituted weighted queuing, i.e. the quality of your past performance and level, gear is taken into account when deciding who you get paired up with. I can't pretend to assume to know what the numbers are community wise, or if they would support tiered queuing; But i do know this game has a level of complexity that is very appealing to competitve pvpers. But any long time pvper can tell you, the hardcore aren't enough to sustain a game, you need new blood; novice and intermediate players to fill in the gaps as people drop out, quit, or do other things - And you can't inspire them (especially new novices) to stick around long and learn the ropes if they are getting ***** in seconds.

I know it's fashionable to be less than constructive when typing to others online, but this community i think can easily rise above that mentality (at least some of the time) So lets try to do that.

It feels a little silly debating this, I'm sure cryptic barely reads these forums and are more interested in how to turn a profit atm than improving pvp, as evidenced by the lack of any large pvp maps or sector pvp in general.

Still, who can pass up a chance to debate on the internet, am i rite?
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