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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-11-2012, 04:31 PM
Wait, this is about PvE?

The KDF doesn't even exist in PvE for the first 20 levels.

That's a pretty big advantage on the fed side. They get a full 50 level PvE story and experience.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-11-2012, 04:43 PM
I have the say the chart is nice and simple and easy to read. Tho I can't say you can base it all numbers alone. There are many many things that come into play past the base number lay out. One major thing I feel is over looked is how the persons build is, this is feel is a major thing.

Then you have to take into count the type of ship and how it should be played as well. A Sci ship should be doing a lot of debuffing and and giving aid to the rest of the fleet when they can, along with some AoE attacks. The KDF have no real sci ship, that I know of anyway i aint played KFD in a long time.

There many other factor's as well but over all I do like this chart as its good for a fast over view of the base ship stats. So thank you for the chart!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-12-2012, 08:09 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Starblazer View Post
Roach, you don't even deserve a reply, you do how get to have fun on my ignore list....
Fine by me. Close your eyes and plug your ears when something doesn't mesh with your point of view or belief system.
Many have stated the KDF is not OP, Many have given ample evidence of how and why, you refuse to believe it and still look for the magical proof that will vindicate you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-12-2012, 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Wait, this is about PvE?

The KDF doesn't even exist in PvE for the first 20 levels.

That's a pretty big advantage on the fed side. They get a full 50 level PvE story and experience.
Shocking, isn't it? We KDF are now OP in the PvE instead of just the PvP. Oh woe is me. Many have stated evidence to the proof against but some just will not see.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
However, most of them don't really matter to the way the game is played. The Feds do have some ships that are as powerful or more so than the KDF counterparts. But the KDF has significant advantages in general. First off: cloak. A cloaked ship has the advantage of initiative. That is huge. You determine the time and place of the battle, and get the first shot. In a human hand to hand fight, one of the biggest determinants of winning is who gets in the first blow. I'm not talking about boxing; both fighters know the fight is on and they're going to be hit. I'm talking about street fighting.

Battlecruisers are far and away better on the KDF side. I've flown every ship in this class for both factions (except the new Galor) and the KDF gets cannons, cloak, and better turn rate. So except for initiative, more dps, and better turn rate, it's only offset by some hull and shield advantages. I think the KDF trumps the Feds in this area.

KDF gets carriers. This is a force multiplier. They do lose cloak though. Still fighters had to be nerfed because they were able to kill ships before their opponents could even get in range. The Fed counters to it are still inferior in my opinion.

I'm still mainly a Fed player. The Feds are the good guys in Star Trek, they're the focus of the shows and films, and they have the lions share of the content. Their ships are good enough, and I think some of their ships like the MVAM are better than the KDF counterparts.

So I don't think it's far and away a KDF advantage. But I think that DPS in general matters more in the game than defensive skills, and turn rate matters more than people give credit for And in those critical areas, along with initiative, the KDF is on top.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-12-2012, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakkar View Post
However, most of them don't really matter to the way the game is played. The Feds do have some ships that are as powerful or more so than the KDF counterparts. But the KDF has significant advantages in general. First off: cloak. A cloaked ship has the advantage of initiative. That is huge. You determine the time and place of the battle, and get the first shot. In a human hand to hand fight, one of the biggest determinants of winning is who gets in the first blow. I'm not talking about boxing; both fighters know the fight is on and they're going to be hit. I'm talking about street fighting.

Battlecruisers are far and away better on the KDF side. I've flown every ship in this class for both factions (except the new Galor) and the KDF gets cannons, cloak, and better turn rate. So except for initiative, more dps, and better turn rate, it's only offset by some hull and shield advantages. I think the KDF trumps the Feds in this area.

KDF gets carriers. This is a force multiplier. They do lose cloak though. Still fighters had to be nerfed because they were able to kill ships before their opponents could even get in range. The Fed counters to it are still inferior in my opinion.

I'm still mainly a Fed player. The Feds are the good guys in Star Trek, they're the focus of the shows and films, and they have the lions share of the content. Their ships are good enough, and I think some of their ships like the MVAM are better than the KDF counterparts.

So I don't think it's far and away a KDF advantage. But I think that DPS in general matters more in the game than defensive skills, and turn rate matters more than people give credit for And in those critical areas, along with initiative, the KDF is on top.
Your post reads like it is addressing the topic in terms of PvP.

But after reading the OP's responses it seems this is more about PvE. So, like what advantage is a cloak in PvE? Especially the way the current cloak is implemented (as in, it's broken)?

Also, with the new console changes both Fed endgame cruisers and escorts can equip cloaks now. Leaving only science ships out of the party (though they have access to Rank III Mask Energy Signature which should work similar to cloak in PvE).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-12-2012, 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakkar View Post
However, most of them don't really matter to the way the game is played. The Feds do have some ships that are as powerful or more so than the KDF counterparts. But the KDF has significant advantages in general. First off: cloak. A cloaked ship has the advantage of initiative. That is huge. You determine the time and place of the battle, and get the first shot. In a human hand to hand fight, one of the biggest determinants of winning is who gets in the first blow. I'm not talking about boxing; both fighters know the fight is on and they're going to be hit. I'm talking about street fighting.

Battlecruisers are far and away better on the KDF side. I've flown every ship in this class for both factions (except the new Galor) and the KDF gets cannons, cloak, and better turn rate. So except for initiative, more dps, and better turn rate, it's only offset by some hull and shield advantages. I think the KDF trumps the Feds in this area.

KDF gets carriers. This is a force multiplier. They do lose cloak though. Still fighters had to be nerfed because they were able to kill ships before their opponents could even get in range. The Fed counters to it are still inferior in my opinion.

I'm still mainly a Fed player. The Feds are the good guys in Star Trek, they're the focus of the shows and films, and they have the lions share of the content. Their ships are good enough, and I think some of their ships like the MVAM are better than the KDF counterparts.

So I don't think it's far and away a KDF advantage. But I think that DPS in general matters more in the game than defensive skills, and turn rate matters more than people give credit for And in those critical areas, along with initiative, the KDF is on top.
I 100% agree.

In my 2 year of STO i have been flying a Cruiser (FED) so maybe my statements don't apply to other ship classes very well.

I think Federation ships, albeit if they are weaker or stronger are much too passive in general.
A higher turn rate not only benefits ships using cannons, they can use their tropedoes much more effective, which federation cruisers cannot.

I think Initiative and the ability to end fight a fight if things go wrong are a much to big advantage in PvP.
I think it would have been much better if the Klingons would have gotten something like a (weaker but permanent) version of "go down fighting".

Personally i think that a bit more hull never makes up all the other advantages the klingons have.


Live long and prosper.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
The fact is, both faction's ships are able to get through most pve content. Elite STFs is probably an exception there though. In those and in pvp, I think the KDF has an advantage. Not a huge one, but I still believe that advantage exists for the reasons I gave.

I have 8 KDF Lt. Generals and a lot of Fed VAs. I've flown every top tier ship except the Galor. If I could fly KDF ships with my Feds I would do so in some cases.

EDIT: to address the cloak issue: Tier 5 consoles are not able to be moved to other ships even with the change so only the Gal-X and the Defiant get the cloak. That hasn't changed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-12-2012, 10:16 AM
Why not just come out and say what you really mean.

I want the BOP universal BO layout on my defiant.

I want the Carrier Fedside.

Talk about your "wolf-dressed-up-in-sheeps" argument...

Trust me when I say this - your beloved Federation will have all that and more soon, and not too long from now you will be whining about all the Galors, the d'Deridex, the Jem'Hadar attack ships, hell why not even throw in Borg Cubes for the heck of it, hanging around Sol.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20 Well, one thing that is fair
02-12-2012, 10:20 AM
Both sides have equal chance (ie not good) of getting one of those "alien" ships. So it doesn't have much effect on balance. I would rather have new Fed and KDF ships than any of those though.
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