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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-12-2012, 01:10 PM
Yes and No

I agree that I'd like to see more hope and optimism as well, that is a staple of what Earth in this future is supposed to be about, its supposed to be a Utopia.

However, when things like the Borg, Dominion, and so forth constantly beat down on you, it does change your tactics and changes your optimism. If you were to do nothing, and be a complete space hippie, you'd die. The humans, in this future, are adapting to the environment around them, they are reacting, and they have to, purely to survive!

I think Star Trek itself, as a whole, has also evolved with the times, evolved with our real world issues and state of mind. I do think ST reflects our current state of mind, which is sadly a hardened look at the world around us.

All that said, I would like there to be a coming together of forces, an optimistic look at the future, but if there are really things like the Borg out there, how optimistic can you really be?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-12-2012, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorSTAFF
Star Trek has always been about hope, and optimism, progress and peace.

When I was playing "Second Wave", an episode that I thought they did a really good job on, I despaired at the admiral saying "The Federation has about 3 years left before we are completely destroyed by the borg!"

THAT IS SO DEPRESSING! 3 years??? Do you know how bad that makes things? That is all but hopeless. That is not humanity reaching out to the stars and evolving to the next level, it is our inevitable doom.
The Borg nearly wiped out humanity a couple times in TNG and VOY--and in far less time. How many times did they nearly disable and assimilate Earth? 3?

As for Star Trek always being about hope, optimism, peace, and progress--I'd say that isn't entirely true.

Heresy.

While some aspects are positive, the series is also used as a lens through which to view contemporary problems in a new light.

DS9 was also the darkest series by far (see: In the Pale Moonlight).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-12-2012, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Restless.Kaiser
I have to agree with the OP. The game is astoundingly bleak in outlook if you stop and think about what is going on. Star Trek differs form other sci-fi genres in its hope for a birght future filled with optimism.
Yup, ST is supposed to show that there is still hope in the end...not...well everyone is dead...we're going to die in X time....well off ot the next mission.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-12-2012, 01:15 PM
TNG: Yesterday's Enterprise. A depressing future filled with death and doom where the Federation and Klingon Empire are at war, and the Federation is losing.

Even the episode All Good Things has the Federation and Klingon alliance abolished and the two forces again adversarial; plus it has the Romulan Empire lost and conquered by the Klingons.

I'm not really seeing this future being much darker then those already portrayed in canon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-12-2012, 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorSTAFF
I really like Star Trek Online but I really dislike the dark, depressing hopelessness that seems to be its most prevalent themes.

Star Trek has always been about hope, and optimism, progress and peace.

When I was playing "Second Wave", an episode that I thought they did a really good job on, I despaired at the admiral saying "The Federation has about 3 years left before we are completely destroyed by the borg!"

THAT IS SO DEPRESSING! 3 years??? Do you know how bad that makes things? That is all but hopeless. That is not humanity reaching out to the stars and evolving to the next level, it is our inevitable doom.
during the hope, optimism, progress and peace there were a bunch of aliens trying to destroy us for the majority of star trek.

the Borg are not going to destroy the federation in 3 years. the federation will be here for centuries to come as they are the main faction in the whole franchise. its a way to ramp up the feeling of danger, in the same way the borg did not destroy the federation in the best of both worlds or the dominion did not win the war but they made it seem like the feds were on the verge of destruction.

i know sto is set in a dark time, and perhaps its too dark and they need to focus more on other aspects rather than conflict but whats the points of having an enemy breathing down your neck if they are no threat. its not hopeless and its not inevitable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-12-2012, 01:18 PM
I think, while there is always conflict, that there is one thing that has remained consistent through Star Trek, and thus qualifies as your intent of optimism and positiveness, and that is that Earth is a Utopia.

Earth, in every incarnation of Star Trek, is a Utopia by the 23rd century, and starting to get there in a bit way in the 22nd century. By the 23rd century and on, its a brilliant place to live. No poverty, no hunger, no greed. Remember Troi telling Clemens how perfect Earth was in the 24th century in Time's Arrow? That has remained one constant in Trek, and is VERY uplifting, to know that Earth becomes a Utopia.

So even though all that is going on, remember, we are seeing everything through the eyes of the Military, in this case Starfleet. On Earth, there is very much hope, optimism, and peace.

Keep in that in mind, we are seeing STO through he eyes of the military.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-12-2012, 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by megacount
Maybe it is a sign of the times reflecting the mood of our modern society where things seem somewhat grim to many people.
This.

Also see: "The Phantom Menace / Revenge of the Sith".

Specifically to OP: Admiral Leyton was wrong, too. Star Trek is all about cheating fate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-12-2012, 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Doctor.
I think, while there is always conflict, that there is one thing that has remained consistent through Star Trek, and thus qualifies as your intent of optimism and positiveness, and that is that Earth is a Utopia.

Earth, in every incarnation of Star Trek, is a Utopia by the 23rd century, and starting to get there in a bit way in the 22nd century. By the 23rd century and on, its a brilliant place to live. No poverty, no hunger, no greed. Remember Troi telling Clemens how perfect Earth was in the 24th century in Time's Arrow? That has remained one constant in Trek, and is VERY uplifting, to know that Earth becomes a Utopia.

So even though all that is going on, remember, we are seeing everything through the eyes of the Military, in this case Starfleet. On Earth, there is very much hope, optimism, and peace.

I think part of what made DS9 / Voyager / Enterprise so bad were the intrusions of real-world petty small-mindedness. Some people, like the characters in Undiscovered Country, are truly fearful of a better world. A lot of people.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-12-2012, 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Doctor.

All that said, I would like there to be a coming together of forces, an optimistic look at the future,
this is an important thing to remember. we all hope sto will be here for years and years. maybe the next decade. we are at the start of the story. the bad guys are making their move and things are looking bleak. you cant have a grand resurgence by the good guys if everything is hunky dory to begin with.

its darkest before the dawn.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-12-2012, 01:33 PM
I think Sisko says it best when he describes that Earth is seen as Paradise, a perfect clean society where there are no wars, no illness, no famine, no hardships. But the truth in the big blue is that there are wars, and nasty species that would rather eviscerate your planet than talk to you, and illness, and starvation, pretty much what there is today.

You want bleak? Put the news on. ST is a fantasy yes, it is a escape from reality yes, but its not a childlike fantasy. It is very realistic in the fact that some places are great, and some are not so great. Its something that late TNG started (TOS did of course but... did not have the budget nor the special effects to portray it too well) and was carried through right till ENT. I like how ENT is gritty, taking those first tentative steps, making mistakes, learning the hard way. Okay the series as a whole got slated, and with due reason in some respects, but in many others it was as awesome as DS9 (my personal fave) ever was.

The plot of STO is a war with the Klingons. War is not generally that fun. There are fun aspects, and possibilities of a grand bright future, but not all can be the Eden that is Earth. Earth is small, its a tiny dot in the corner of a very big galaxy. Its highly likely there would be some "depressing bleakness" out there.
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