Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
02-13-2012, 02:14 AM
Op here. Firstly, I'd just like to say that I really appreciate the discussion that's unfolded. I'm pleased that I'm not alone in favoring cruisers as a viable endgame ship and play-style. I didn't feel so discouraged about the idea after reading what some folks had to say in this thread.

I've since been flying around normal STF's in my Odyssey and am happy to see a lot of other folks have cruisers and don't pay too much attention to the few escort players so opinionated against the difference in their handling (and potentially DPS) that they complain when a cruiser is about. However, I do see the point a lot of escort players have about rushing the optional parts and needing to rush around have a massive damage output a great deal of the time.

Like some of you have noted, I really think the devs need to take notice that endgame, despite being a pretty likeable, fast-paced experience, is rather geared towards escort players, and that seems like a strange thing. I would never suggest that escorts shouldn't be great at doing damage, and that damage shouldn't be important, but I think there could be some simple changes that would really make a big difference in balancing things out.

If cruisers were made effective for what they're supposed to be doing, tanking, It might make things more interesting for everyone. Making cruisers more effective in STF's also makes science vessels very useful for healing in addition to what they get up to now, so it brings all the basic general-purpose ship roles to endgame. Let's not go out of control and nerf escorts, but what if cruisers had some kind of damage resistance on elite? 20%? Something... useful?

Of course, without so many escorts, not as much AOE is probably being done, so maybe nerf the damage-absorbing capabilities of borg ships and objectives that are on an egg timer?

Just some of my noob-thoughts.

I don't see anything that's going to stop me from playing a cruiser endgame unless I just end up not being able to help bring my team those juicy optional objectives consistently in elite. If that happens, I'm going to have to join the escort bandwagon until some sort of tweaks are made and other ships are given some purpose.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
02-13-2012, 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormGryffen View Post
There seem to be a lot of folks who don't view cruisers as a valid choice for many things: PVP, Endgame content, etc. A lot of people have angrily compared them to space whales or whatever in other threads, and I'm not sure where the disconnect is.

As an engineer, I've happily chugged along in a cruiser since I started (up to level 43 so far). I've participated in massive battles in which enemies made the mistake of targeting me just to find out I can't be exploded, and my damage output is on par with most klingon opponents I've observed. Turn rate isn't much of a problem if you know when you need to pivot to rotate shields (using abilities) and understand that gearing up a cruiser for damage is a lot different than gearing up a ship that faces forward at all times to do battle. Isn't this really simply a play-style choice?

Despite the fact that The Odyssey has fallen short on a lot of levels, I was looking forward to being able to fly this thing around endgame only to find out that it for some reason "doesn't work." I get that a ton of ships instantly explode whenever the borg look at them funny in higher difficulty modes - and its my understanding that the cruiser ability to "tank things" does not make up for this fact, but does this really invalidate cruisers in endgame content?
I thoroughly enjoyed leveling up my Engineer, but only because I leveled up an engineer first.

After playing a Science Officer, I find I cannot go back to my Engineer. I'll never use the Odyssey for the same reason I stopped using the Dreadnought for my Excelsior: I can't stand a ship that takes an entire planet's orbit to do a 180, and RCS consoles do absolutely nothing to mitigate that fact. I sure as hell wont be switching to a ship that is even slower than a Dreadnought.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
02-13-2012, 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexiom
The Truth: In regular STFs, cruisers suck. Are they tougher than escorts? Yes, they are - but it doesn't matter, because a properly piloted escort will (a) not blow up, (b) do at least twice the damage of a cruiser, and (c) be faster and more maneuverable.

In elite STFs, cruisers are maybe a little better, but not much. Escorts and cruisers both die to 1-shot torpedoes, and non-torpedo damage is still tankable most of the time in an escort. And even if you blow up, the respawn timer is only 15 seconds. Big whoop.

As far as STFs go, it is really all about damage. Survivability barely matters. You do the math.
Wrong. And I'm an escort pilot. A tanking Ody with THREAT CONTROL skill is a godsend in elite STFs. Period. As an escort, I really don't want everything in the instance focusing on my three seconds after battle starts because I do the most DPS (which I do). I want them focusing on the Ody spamming FAW and with perma EPtS and lots of shield and hull heals and resists. It's seriously pure win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
02-13-2012, 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demosthenes01101 View Post
Wrong. And I'm an escort pilot. A tanking Ody with THREAT CONTROL skill is a godsend in elite STFs. Period. As an escort, I really don't want everything in the instance focusing on my three seconds after battle starts because I do the most DPS (which I do). I want them focusing on the Ody spamming FAW and with perma EPtS and lots of shield and hull heals and resists. It's seriously pure win.
Well, I did say that they were slightly better in elite (as opposed to useless.) You're still better off with a Carrier or Sci Ship, though, and you would never want more than one Cruiser in your elite STF.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
02-13-2012, 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
Cruisers are perfectly viable in PvP. You just have to make sure you're not trying to be a Kirk and zerg in, expecting to take on the entire enemy team, or DPS Hero and out damage Escorts.

But for PvE... anything a Cruiser or Sci can do, an Escort can do better.
I only wanted to point out that in our weekly fleet pvp, I charged in and tanked, and I only got popped like 3 times, and that was always when the rest of my team was dead, and the rest of their team was respawning on top of me. The escorts ran away from me to heal, and the cruisers couldn't hurt me while trying to heal themselves from my hurt *shrugs* I am now playing a tac/escort as well, but I have to say, I really enjoy the security I feel flying my "whale" in space.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
02-13-2012, 08:46 AM
Turning is overrated if you know what your doing *shrugs* and like was said already here, if you absolutely have to turn, you pop evasive maneuvers(and ramming speed if necassary) and you can pull a 180 in no time. Spamming the space bar isn't the only part of this game. I find that staying alive(at least in a cruiser) is more dependant on throttle control, and shield facing than popping heals, and trying to do more dmg.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
02-13-2012, 08:49 AM
This is my last post in this topic(sorry)

It seems the developers of this game have gone against the mandate of the original starfleet, and as such, every endgame thing is about assaulting something or other. Lemme say, if there was an endgame content surrounding protecting a starbase, or something like that, Cruisers and Science vessels will be what's desired, not escorts. But as in so many other games(WoW favors Horde, and depends on the timeline for which class) the devs who play this game probably fly escorts LOL.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
02-13-2012, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormGryffen View Post
I don't see anything that's going to stop me from playing a cruiser endgame unless I just end up not being able to help bring my team those juicy optional objectives consistently in elite. If that happens, I'm going to have to join the escort bandwagon until some sort of tweaks are made and other ships are given some purpose.
Assuming you are going all Fed... I would suggest getting the Odyssey's +1 when it comes out. That, the Excelsior, or Galaxy X or R are all Fed Cruisers that CAN help with the optional IF the other players are not all Cruisers and work together.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
02-13-2012, 12:26 PM
I run a Cruiser as a TAC and it is very rare that I die in STFs, and only then because my team members disappeared or exploded, leaving me to take the full brunt of every piece of Borg weaponry. I lay down a lot of DPS, and I'm fairly nimble (Excelsior Retrofit). It's all in how you approach the enemy, keeping your shields moving about enough to prevent burnout in mere seconds. As TyranThraxis said, it's about speed and maneuverability. You can't win every time, but you can stay alive longer if you try to keep a step ahead of the game, and you don't have to be an Escort to do it.
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