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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-07-2012, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by NovaFury View Post
Heavy Cannon Storytime, with NovaFury and friends~

Alright, I'll give it a shot. Because I happen to fly a Vor'cha-R and am a tactical commander, and think my burst alpha is pretty awesome, we'll use that as our theoretical ship. We'll assume it's fitted with all energy weapons, because torpedos are notoriously hard to calculate and very situational, as in PVP particularly any shield strength at all (Like reallocation, or frantically spamming EPTS1) will render them ineffective, as torpedoes do 10% damage to shields. So it's got 4 white MkXII disruptor DHCs, and 4x white mkXII disruptor turrets. This is mainly because I cannot find the stats for non-whites on the wiki, and boni vary, nor can I log in right now. We'll assume we're firing at a relatively common, slow moving target that has difficulty maneuvering, like a galaxy class cruiser, within optimal range. Perhaps I decloaked at 3km, or something. It has defense, but not a lot, so my shots should do close to maximum damage. I may miss once or twice, but I'll crit once or twice too and it'll even out.

*A little balloon replica of a Vor'cha and Galaxy pop into existance, along with the klingon battle theme*

Now, I'm probably running 100 weapon power, with +15 from my ship type, 5 from the assmiliated console and another 5 from weapon performance. That's a nice 125 and it's as high as power goes. Our weapons cascade top to bottom, left to right, at power levels 125, 113, 101, 89, 81, 73, 65, 57, because they run 12/12/12/12/8/8/8/8. Assuming rated DPSes of 256 (DHC) and 132 (Turret), our shots look like...





*The little balloon vor'cha fires poorly animated green bolts at the balloon galaxy, as people in the background chirp "Pew, pew!"*

That's a nice, flat number, not counting resistances or buffs. But wait? Who decloaks without cannon rapid fire 1, attack pattern alpha 3, go down fighting 3 (For it's small flat damage buff even at no hull damage), and tactical fleet with emergency power to weapons? To be honest, a lot of people do, but usually I use at least one or two of these buffs. For this experiment, we'll use them all, though.

(Caveat: A lot of Raptor pilots get ansty when I claim a Battlecruiser can hit as hard as they can, and they probably have good reason to do so. To be fair, the only real difference an escort has compared to a cruiser is more tactical BoFF positions, and one less gun. Since so few tactical skills really effect cannons agaisnt one target (Rapid fire, and... APO), the benefit of being an escort isn't as large as it seems. You maneuver better, though. CRF 1 is 40%, and CRF 3 is 60% as far as I'm aware, but nobody sane would run CRF3 instead of APO3, so that leaves them with maybe 40% more damage and down a turret.)

CRF 1 is 40%, APA3 is 60%, GDF3 at 100% hull is, as far as I remember unless it's changed, 40%, Tactical Fleet 1 another 22% and Emergency power to weapons, despite not giving us any bonus to weapon power cause we maxed that like any good klingon, at level 1 is another 10%. Stacking multiplicatively, this is a 172% damage bonus, and a sundry bonus from skills and consoles I will assume is negated by hull resists and hull resist consoles.

Did I mention we're shooting at hull? I should mention that. This guy probably full impulsed into six borg cubes and got his shields stripped off in Ker'rat. Happens all the time and people seriously wonder why they get shot at.

*An efficient saurian sock puppet pops over my shoulder, and shouts "Rear shields failing!"*

2968x1.72 is 5104DPS, which can be sustained for at least 10 seconds. Failing a timely use of tactical team or EPTS, RSP (that doesn't get sub-nuked, but I'm not a science officer), this'll sink most ships. Like our target.

*The galaxy effigy disappears with a loud, snapping 'Pop!' accompanied by a chorus of piratey-accented men yelling 'Qa'pla!'*

I hope this was fun and educational.
You give a baseline to work from but there are other considerations including:

I think you left out the decloaking damage boost.

CRF + APO on an Escort/BoP should do more damage despite the turret loss, espcially considering on the KDF side they can leech Power back w/each shot w/Plas Leech console which can't go on cruisers.

Also, there's power regen between shots so I don't know if the reductions you've shown are all that accurate.

From here things can get much more complicated w/accuracy vs defense and how that plays into crit hits and crit damage boosts.

Not to mention there are Sci/Eng skills which could ruin your day, like the applied FBP damage you'd be getting back at you could be greater than the damage your weapons were able to apply.

I just think if someones looking for basic raw dps numbers they're thinking about things wrong. They should be thinking about ways to apply the damage whether sustained or burst.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-07-2012, 10:25 PM
Yeah, I left out the decloaking damage boost. Plasmonic leech still isn't taking you above 125 weapon power and I'm not sure if the 'phantom weapon power' above 125 caveat still exists. As it was before they rejigged weapon power to the way it is used now. Considering all guns fire in sequence when set to auto, heavies and turrets all fire, followed by just turrets, followed by heavies and turrets again. It's somewhat accurate, as the weapons don't regenerate while they're all firing, but the turrets in the in-between volleys do get full damage.

Not truly convinced on the escort thing, as percents are applied to base weapon damage, not modified weapon damage, and as you get more buffs, your base damage is inherantly more valuable. At low numbers of buffs, yes, escorts probably have the advantage in reasonable scenarios. That and you'll never get a cruiser to fly like a kite with 2 copies of APO and Evasive maneuvers being cycled to make you all but unhittable by even the most accurate weapons.

You're right of course, and in the previous post I mentioned all these difficulties, but I gave it a shot just for the lulz.

There's also the issue that that could be completely different if for some reason your turrets cycled before the cannons due to Romulan Spies/Tribble ate an EPS Conduit/Fire Control dies of Thalaron Radation/Bio-neural Gel Pack in Turret 3 became self-aware and demands equal rights, ect.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-07-2012, 11:18 PM
observations i made:

ur best possible dps vs stationary highly debuffed borg targets in STFs can reach to about 50k dps 5-7 second bursts and about 10-12k sustained by chaining ur buffs right


actual dps in pvp might be from about 50k burst in 1 second to just about 0

edit: csv bursts might reach 30k at best with max of 9 targets for a max of 5-7 seconds
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-10-2012, 08:28 AM
"It's over 9000" is actually from Dragon Ball Z.

Soph, you've got good intentions, but Cryptic won't let us get at the maths behind the curtain completely. For example, every ship has a modifier based on tier and, maybe, class. What is this modifier? Nobody knows exactly. For example, Feedback Pulse is currently not working as intended. It turned out that the damage calculation was counting this modifier twice. This damage modifier is apparently used in all calculations, but we don't have values for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-13-2012, 05:37 AM
STO is atm a faceroll game, using skills that "sound good" and weapons that "seem to make sense"

as long as we dont have proper data parser to have numbers for our theorycrafting, the whole thing is pure speculation. personal experience is one thing, but highly dependent on RNG and subjective perception, and does not provide for a fraction of the data needed. if we could obtain proper numbers on the effects of all parts in the equation, we could use scripts to run iterative simulations with 100k or 1mil iterations, THEN we could provide real numbers.

until then, its casual button-mashing and gathering personal experience, and effects may vary from case to case without any knowledge why something worked and when.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-18-2012, 12:40 PM
Originally Posted by aashenfox
You ask the impossible, since there is no damage meter or combat log parser that I know of.
Look up STOICs its a combatlog analyzer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-18-2012, 12:50 PM
I don't know about highest, but i used the combatlog analyzer a lot to optimize my build. I can on average over the course of an entire space sft about 4800 dps. And 5600 peak dps. That is the average, burst are of course higher as well as downtime in between reaching targets are lower. Max burst is about 30k in a single hit.
That is a with a Vor'Cha battlecruiser and a full loadout of mk11 tetryon anti-borg guns.

1x Photon torp for torp spread
1x tetryon dual beam bank for beam overload
2x tetryon dual heavy cannon

4x tetryon turret

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