Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
02-20-2012, 05:08 PM
IMO the TOS and Belfast interiors are brilliant pieces of work. I purchased both of them, and while it is only cosmetic it is a huge part of my game. I love strolling the corridors, checking my ship and crew over before battle etc..

I have been disappointed in the past; mainly by the 'Intrepid' bridge pack. A ship I adore 'cos she is gorgeous! But the bridge looks nothing like the shows, well apart from the map view, which is an exact match if you look closely.

Here is hoping that we will will see some more great work, either via c-store or in-game location updates. Keep up the excellent work!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
02-20-2012, 05:15 PM
i would like to put the Ship Interiors for the Belfast with one of the other Defiant class bridges
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
02-20-2012, 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
Many, many players over they years have asked me why other devs don't post. Do you know what I hear all the time from other devs? "How can you deal with the forums the way they are? How can you constant wade into that poo-storm. It's a mess, everyone hates us all the time."

Whether fair or not, this is the perception that most devs have of the forums. And as I type this, I KNOW that someone, hell, multiple people, are going to latch onto the above quote as a sign of how the devs hate players, or how we don't care what players think. Don't. Seriously, devs read the forums constantly. Not just me. Not just Geko or Logan. Many devs read the forums, ALL THE TIME. They just don't wan to open their mouths (er. . . fingers?) because of the inevitable torrent of seeming hate that gets directed their way. I know that most of it isn't hate, it's just passion for a game and for an IP that we all love.

But on the internet, your inflection does not come through. Your witty sarcasm comes off as elitist snobbery. And often what may be intended as constructive criticism on one end, ends up looking like hate fueled rage by time it reaches the other. This is why it is VITAL to be polite, respectful, and conscious of how your words are going to come across on the other end. I screw it up CONSTANTLY, and I apologize for miscommunications regularly. It's an inevitability. It will happen, but keeping all of that in mind while you post, and remembering that the dev that screwed up whatever you're ****ed off about, is a real, genuine human being on the other end of the tube, is absolutely necessary for your post to come across well, and relay the information you intend to, not the passionate rant we often perceive.

No Dev response, does not equal no Dev interest.
Lies! We know you all hate us and are also in fact primarily machines with only morsels of humanity in the form of grey matter attached to advanced processing units.

You have no souls and hate us all and we hate you equally!

Storm the HQ! GAAAAAH!

.....

Wait what?

But seriously, we do hate you. But we also love you. Cryptic and the Forumites have a very Ike and Tina relationship. Sometimes you are Ike (Dilithium Conversion rates, Content Generation Speed, etc) Most of the time we're Ike (Forums et al).

That's how it is. I saw a 100 pound nerd physically attack a 200 lb football player in high school after they'd pushed him around for 5 minutes teasing him and finally ripped his Star Trek book in half and called Data a few words that I can't repeat here.

The nerd won. Then he talked trash about Rick Berman for 40 minutes at lunch...

You can tell the devs this: You can hide from us and be afraid to post or even take what we say as offensive and get angry and get ban-sticky or offended or whatever. Remember, we'd most likely be able to form a nerd strike team that could hack into and seriously damage any competition's servers if you asked us to...we'd probably make a nun cry if you asked us to.

We are your greatest asset.

Unfortunately at the end of the day, on our side of the fence it looks like whoever is pulling the strings is always trying to screw with us and also it feels like sometimes we're assumed to be fools with certain PR things and statements some people have made, as if we don't know how to search back logged websites or so on.

We're a minutia based borderline Aspergers community that has cataloging and fact spewing down to an art. If you do something or say something don't expect us to forget it. My personal example being the FEs, a cinematic and ground zone is produced and shown in full video form in Sept then in Oct someone tries to tell us there's been no work done on it? Stuff like that makes us think that there's no respect coming from the uppers and honestly is a spit in the face.

Sorta like at the start when Jack Emmert came out after the announcement of Cryptic making STO and said that you guys got absolutely nothing except the license. He said this on the forums while the background was 4 year old Perpetual Entertainment concept art

When we sit here and see the upper management come in an prove that they think we're morons it's hard for us to not bring that back at anyone else from the company that posts on the forums.

Crap rolls down hill and all that.

Just tell them to treat us with respect and communicate and in the end we'll treat them well. Don't talk to us like we're stupid. Some of us might rant or say stupid things but for the most part this particular community is made up of a great deal of intelligent and passionate people.

Perfect examples are you, CapnLogan and Heretic. You guys occasionally get some crap but by and large you're some of the most respected devs I've ever seen on any game forum. You're active, you talk back and earn respect and explain actions you've taken.

That all goes a long way here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84
02-20-2012, 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirian_darkstar View Post
Ok...
Tell them for me:
"Loves Loves Loves! Hugs hugs Hugs! Bacon Bacon Bacon!"
...
If one of them is of a belief that forbids pork, change to Lambchop.
...
If one of them is of a belief that forbids meat, change to Celery.
I don't think they'll like it, but I'll be sure to accost everyone that enters the office tomorrow with an unrequested hug.

BTW, Geko's a veggie, as are a few others.


Also, Kyuui earlier brought up the Penthouse hideout in CO. He says he loves it. Guess what? There were tons of "good enoughs" in there. I had a whole laundry list of other things I wanted to get to. And after my time ran out, Robobobobobo and Stokeman gave me more time. And after that time ran out (a good 6 weeks total, more than we'd been able to spend on any single hideout) we STILL had more we wanted to do. . . but at some point you have to cut that off, and say, "Good enough." and shove it out the door.

I don't know about revamping old bridges, but I do know that a couple new ones are in the works. We're not done with interiors, it's just going to take time (ya ya, I know you've heard that before. . . but it's true)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
02-20-2012, 05:19 PM
For those who did not understand Tumerboy, here is an easy break down of his post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
No Dev response, does not equal no Dev interest.
Reason for the lack of Dev response at times;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
... on the internet, your inflection does not come through. Your witty sarcasm comes off as elitist snobbery. And often what may be intended as constructive criticism on one end, ends up looking like hate fueled rage by time it reaches the other.
And this is why some Devs think...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
..everyone hates us all the time."
Yet, despite that being the view in the Cryptic office by some;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
... I just wanted to ensure that people understand that the devs here (especially on STO) are dedicated, passionate people. They work their butts off because they love this stuff....
So, round up of the above... despite lots of forum hate being sent at the Devs, THEY STILL LOVE THIS GAME, THEY STILL WORK HARD ON THIS GAME and most of all;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
devs read the forums constantly. Not just me. Not just Geko or Logan. Many devs read the forums, ALL THE TIME.
Despite everything, they still keep an eye on this cesspool of a message board.

And alas, no matter how well, how polite or how much thought they put into posting the following still remains true;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
And as I type this, I KNOW that someone, hell, multiple people, are going to latch onto the above quote as a sign of how the devs hate players, or how we don't care what players think.
It is easy folks, think BEFORE you post, pick your words wisely and NEVER post in anger... and guess what, you will get a response or the help you seek.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86
02-20-2012, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
Many, many players over they years have asked me why other devs don't post. Do you know what I hear all the time from other devs? "How can you deal with the forums the way they are? How can you constant wade into that poo-storm. It's a mess, everyone hates us all the time."

Whether fair or not, this is the perception that most devs have of the forums. And as I type this, I KNOW that someone, hell, multiple people, are going to latch onto the above quote as a sign of how the devs hate players, or how we don't care what players think. Don't. Seriously, devs read the forums constantly. Not just me. Not just Geko or Logan. Many devs read the forums, ALL THE TIME. They just don't wan to open their mouths (er. . . fingers?) because of the inevitable torrent of seeming hate that gets directed their way. I know that most of it isn't hate, it's just passion for a game and for an IP that we all love.

But on the internet, your inflection does not come through. Your witty sarcasm comes off as elitist snobbery. And often what may be intended as constructive criticism on one end, ends up looking like hate fueled rage by time it reaches the other. This is why it is VITAL to be polite, respectful, and conscious of how your words are going to come across on the other end. I screw it up CONSTANTLY, and I apologize for miscommunications regularly. It's an inevitability. It will happen, but keeping all of that in mind while you post, and remembering that the dev that screwed up whatever you're ****ed off about, is a real, genuine human being on the other end of the tube, is absolutely necessary for your post to come across well, and relay the information you intend to, not the passionate rant we often perceive.

No Dev response, does not equal no Dev interest.
This is why devs deserve more respect; yes we(players) may not get what we want, but this does not mean we need to flame on the devs look back to the when they posted about the Winter Event Red Boxes and the Cardassain lock boxes I have to admit I was very mad at their idea, but I refrained from attacking the devs on the forums.

Now back on topic I would love to see a trophy system for shuttle in the shuttle bay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 87
02-20-2012, 05:30 PM
I think what irritates me most about interiors are two things:

A. Functionality. Geez, I remember (and correct me if I'm wrong), a few weeks before we got ship interiors, Dstahl was still making some kind of promises or genie wishes that acknowledge that we cared most about functionality, not just pretty sets where nothing happens. Then, we discovered that absolutely nothing had been done in that direction, apparently, in spite of a poll done by Cryptic that proved the point.

It's like there is this huge disconnect between what the art team does and whoever does game mechanics. You guys make pretty things like Starfleet Academy. Players rush in, look around, leave, and never return. The sets have no functionality, so beyond a few moments of cool immersion, they end up being kind of pointless, unless the sole goal is to generate revenue through the c-store, which is the only function of the bridges you guys make.

B. Interior design for the Foundry. The sets are mostly unusable or only usable in a very specific kind of mission. We don't get our ship interiors at all. We don't get legos to piece together. We don't get interior updates, period. Instead, we're given sets full of crates and crates to add to them using the foundry. But guess what? The sets are so filled with crates, that there is usually nowhere to put crates or a table or anything else, unless we're using a really poorly designed generic interior with its mile long corridors.

Again, another example of some type of huge disconnect between what the art team does and whoever adds stuff for players to do.

Despite the fact that I get the impression that you guys spend half of the day in pointless meetings, there is no collaboration, except on big projects and the c-store.

It doesn't mean that you don't work hard, are not passionate, and don't care. It's a dysfunctional setup.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 88
02-20-2012, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
I don't know about revamping old bridges, but I do know that a couple new ones are in the works. We're not done with interiors, it's just going to take time (ya ya, I know you've heard that before. . . but it's true)
In place of revamping old bridges, I would love to see some NEW bridges/interiors, that can be purchased for ingame currencies, rather than shoving it all out on the C-Store. Yes, I understand the C-Store is the "Cash shop" for STO F2P. But in most other F2P games, you also have a certain level of FREE content. Smaller, more "canon" sized interiors, even if the designs aren't canon, would be so much more appreciated than the ones we currently have.

As for the rest, I really don't what more can be said than what Powerhelm wrote.

Yes, occasionally I get a little "testy" and might appear rude at times. By and large, that is not my intent. I am a rather peaceful person when i'm not at the computer. I just have a very high love for all things Star Trek. It was my first major interest (started watching TNG at the age of 4), and I've played most of the games involving Star Trek that have been made to date. There are alot of things in STO that I totally love (space combat being pretty close to perfection, if you ask me). And then there are things that really annoy me, and for which I hope will someday get fixed/improved upon.

I have great respect for anyone who creates, that which I can not. I have even greater respect, for people such as yourself, who walk into a place filled with occasional hate and anger (STO forums), and still be willing to communicate with the community. To me, that is the mark of a great developer. If you intend to be a part of the community, that involves actually communicating with the community as well. Something which most developers tend to avoid, for exactly the reasons you listed above. I think more people would have more respect for the STO developers, if more developers would actually pay a visit to the forums, communicate upcoming content/changes, clarifying why x decisions were made etc. Leaving a community in the dark, fosters suspicion and anger. And we have had enough of that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 89
02-20-2012, 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
if all you ever do is scream in someone's face about how wrong something is, they're going to stop listening to you sooner rather than later. Or in the case of an employee. . .
I guess I haven't screamed loud enough yet
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 90
02-20-2012, 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
I don't know about revamping old bridges, but I do know that a couple new ones are in the works. We're not done with interiors, it's just going to take time (ya ya, I know you've heard that before. . . but it's true)

When I read this, I can't help but say to myself, "Wow, there is a general philosophy here that relates to 'good enough'."

This game's history: A series of constant new pushes towards new things, running against a deadline, and then arriving late... followed by a complete abandonment of those projects, with no attempts to essentially finish them, eliminate bugs, ensure stuff is working as intended, etc., before moving onto something new.

Nearly every part of this game is like this, from dualing on Andoria to crafting to the foundry to diplomacy to Leeta and dabo.

No one has the time to even go back into Andoria and simply delete the popups. More significant features just get left half-baked. Are they "good enough" that they pretty much work as intended? It's a mixed bag.

Bottom line: Flying around this game is like touring a college campus. You see the bauhaus modernist buildings from the 60s, and you think "My god, that's ugly." You see the really old stuff, and recognize how old it is. And then you see the new stuff under construction. It's a complete architectural soup with no cohesive polish.
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