Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-20-2012, 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
I'd have to agree that the mission wasn't that great as a whole.

However, this is the level of depth I wish the Patrols had on a planet-by-planet basis.
Ah, yeah, I can definitely agree that this is a lot more depth than you find in patrols. And taking this kind of thing and building from it can be a good step forward. Definitely.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-20-2012, 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
I'd have to agree that the mission wasn't that great as a whole.

However, this is the level of depth I wish the Patrols had on a planet-by-planet basis.
This mission is basically what I've been pitching as the basis for exploration missions.

Have a few basic city types with randomizable elements and have multi-part chains that consist of three "choose one of the following" missions.

I'd rather visit cities with minor changes and save the open terrain and all space exploration missions as rarities.

As an FE, this mission didn't necessarily blow my mind. As a template for exploration missions, I think it's spot on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-20-2012, 07:17 PM
Quote:
I have yet to even venture near the STO forums since Of Bajor was released, but I can pretty much guarantee that a majority of "gamers" are probably throwing hissy-fits over the new episode because not only does the mission have things a player must read, but it's simply stuffed to the gills with reading.
My biggest complaint is not that I had to read so much, but that I had to read so much and have it do nothing to progress the story. We're still at the same point we were when we finished Second Wave, the only difference is now we're on Bajor instead of sitting in orbit looking at a massive group of ships and wondering "why can't I go take the station back with these guys?"

I have no issue against thinking games and puzzles in a game, and the one (singular, because click up and down the frequencies till you get it right and click on some books till the game tells you the answer isn't a puzzle) instance of this, the Soil mission, was entertaining, if a bit out of place considering the situation. I also find your use of the term "pew-pewers" to be somewhat degrading, you're using it as though you look down on people who like more action oriented gameplay in a game revolving around a war.

Quote:
Although a player may not necessarily have realized it, by the time he's completed all of the mini-missions, he should be very comfortable with the layout of the social map, from the locations of the Starfleet and Bajoran militia headquarters to the placements of the arboretum and the plaza.
And this may be pointing out the biggest flaw in this episode, it's not an episode. It's a tutorial mission, like the one you get on ESD and First City that has you moving around a place to get a feel of it. Thats why me, and a few others at TIE, are pretty underwhelmed by it. It's got very little substance (be that substance narrative story or action in any form), it's simply a bunch of fetch quests common of a tutorial with a small bit of actual plot connected story at the end that serves to progress the story ahead almost none. A none combat mission with this much dialog and reading should heavily advance a plot, I don't feel it did this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-20-2012, 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Nah, I'm not convinced it's a deal. It's overpriced. As are many of its individual components.
Nothing in this game is overpriced comparing it to other MMO's.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-20-2012, 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LtSmith
Nothing in this game is overpriced comparing it to other MMO's.
I didn't have to spend nearly as much to get my Tier 2 armor set from Blackwing Lair.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-20-2012, 07:37 PM
I very much enjoyed reading the article, and agreed with much of it. I didn't get the sense that, as others have suggested, the author was either promoting Cryptic's POV or bashing anyone who prefer action over roleplay/text driven missions.

On the contrary, I think the author was simply pointing out a clear difference in the way people will approach this mission depending on their primary reason for playing the game. I play this game and pay a monthly subscription primarily because it is Star Trek (and I love all aspects of Star Trek, especially storyline). I do not and have not played any other MMO (with the exception of Champions Online for a very brief stint) because the primary motivation for me playing is enjoyment of the genre itself, not action/combat etc. Thus, hands down, well-written Star Trek dialogue (as this FE had in spades) will win for me every time over combat-driven missions.

I would also contest the suggestion that the FE did not do anything story-wise. It may not have advanced the over-arching plot of this series but nor did every episode of any of the Star Trek seasons, particularly DS9, move the over-arching plot forward. There were, for example, many episodes of DS9 where all the elements of the Federation/Dominion war were present, but the episode still stood alone from it and did not advance the over-arching plot of the war.

The FE did, however, have a self-contained storyline revolving around making the various preparations for what will be the inevitable re-establishment of the Federation on DS9.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-20-2012, 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LtSmith
Nothing in this game is overpriced comparing it to other MMO's.


Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
I didn't have to spend nearly as much to get my Tier 2 armor set from Blackwing Lair.


My battle pets in PWI cost around as much as a Cryptic Lifetime subscription...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-20-2012, 07:40 PM
While I liked the mission despite the faults I'd rather not read preemptive trolling either.

I have yet to even venture near the STO forums since Of Bajor was released, but I can pretty much guarantee that a majority of "gamers" are probably throwing hissy-fits over the new episode because not only does the mission have things a player must read, but it's simply stuffed to the gills with reading.

Of course she's entitled to her opinion and I hope the forum disappointed her (in a good way) by not being all negative about "Of Bajor".

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirian_darkstar View Post
Oh well. It's just opinion then.
While the C-Store has plenty of overpriced items ($10 for an 8h skill bonus?) I gladly paid the 1800 points for it. It was someone else's money anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-20-2012, 07:46 PM
I for one loved the feature episode and know many others who did as well people who span the forums with negativity are not really a good barometer for how everyone viewed a mission. I agree with just about everything she said.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-20-2012, 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright View Post
My biggest complaint is not that I had to read so much, but that I had to read so much and have it do nothing to progress the story. We're still at the same point we were when we finished Second Wave, the only difference is now we're on Bajor instead of sitting in orbit looking at a massive group of ships and wondering "why can't I go take the station back with these guys?"

I have no issue against thinking games and puzzles in a game, and the one (singular, because click up and down the frequencies till you get it right and click on some books till the game tells you the answer isn't a puzzle) instance of this, the Soil mission, was entertaining, if a bit out of place considering the situation. I also find your use of the term "pew-pewers" to be somewhat degrading, you're using it as though you look down on people who like more action oriented gameplay in a game revolving around a war.



And this may be pointing out the biggest flaw in this episode, it's not an episode. It's a tutorial mission, like the one you get on ESD and First City that has you moving around a place to get a feel of it. Thats why me, and a few others at TIE, are pretty underwhelmed by it. It's got very little substance (be that substance narrative story or action in any form), it's simply a bunch of fetch quests common of a tutorial with a small bit of actual plot connected story at the end that serves to progress the story ahead almost none. A none combat mission with this much dialog and reading should heavily advance a plot, I don't feel it did this.
Fair enough. I just prefer substance to my stories. What's plot if there are no characters to care about when the plot happens?

I know it's not quite the same as a novel, and the characters we meet on Bajor don't necessarily provide us with a ton of emotion to draw us in -- however I really need to point out that the mission that involves reading the religious texts was a-mazing. And that opinion is coming from someone who usually stuffs her finger down her throat when it comes to the whole "Prophets" thing. But these were a joy to read and, I really felt they added a LOT to the foundation of the mission. They provided me with a very rich history and insight to a species that is VERY unlike me and I needed to know more about them in order to interact with them - just like a real Starfleet officer would have to and if that's not adding to the plot of a story that my character is a part of, I wouldn't want to read any books that merely "advance a plot" without aiming for being a rich story to begin with.

The puzzles were pretty simple, I admit. One I realized the trick to the soil corrections, it was a breeze. I also loved going and talking to the ***t-disturber in the plaza! That WHOLE sequence was really well written and a blast to play. It was one of the first times I felt like I really needed to say the right thing at the right time.

Was it the best mission in the game? Oh heck no, nor did I mean for my overview of it to even remotely say so. But I did enjoy it very much.

But I can also understand why so many didn't like it.

I also mean absolutely nothing degrading by using the term pew-pewers. Although there are times I wonder why there might be a person who plays a game merely to skip over the foundation and backbone of the game (meaning the story content). I have trouble comprehending that concept, but that doesn't mean I disrespect anyone who does. I have many friends who seem not to have the patience to read dialogue and would much rather "get to the good stuff."

It's just that their definition of "the good stuff" is 180 degree from my own. The good news is, without the people who love to do battle, we wouldn't have a game - so no disrespect was ever intended.

I love pew-pewers. They bring out the Klingon in me.
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