Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-04-2012, 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by count23 View Post
Here we have the Alpha of the Jem'hadar invasion fleet (A Gamma Jem'Hadar from 2376), he's TURNING ON A FOUNDER. This is the same type of jem'hadar from teh same era where they commit mass suicide before they'd harm a founder directly OR indirectly. The jem'hadar are genetically programmed not to harm them and yet this one is freely happy to sick his own men on them (again, 2376 hadar, so you cant say "25 years changes a lot of things"). This is almos as stupid as saying the Jem'hadar hatcheries are giant forcefield covered egg pits as opposed to their cannon depiction of the vat things that they found on DS9.

The entire 2800 series has been highly dissapointing, only one missionw as really worth playing (the first one), Of Bajor was patheticlly boring and mission gamma was just tedious.

I totally agree with these statements right here. I'm glad for the new "content" as it were, but not happy with the "content" of the new series. I've been watching DS9 for a long time and just recently started watching the entire series from start...there is ALOT that these folks have not gotten right. The quoted section above highlights some of the major ones I've seen.

Also, it was commented earlier that the voice of the Founder was way off from the actress that portrayed that character. I understand why it might be difficult to get that person to do a voice over, and I'm sure the person that did the voice for the game put a lot of work into trying to get the voice right, but it was so off it was difficult to listen to. And I honestly was looking forward to seeing the Founder's involvement in the mission.

What I think they should have done is lengthened the discussion with the Founder in the cell before freeing her. Talk to her and explain what the situation was. Could have even done a cut scene where the discussion plays out and you choose the dialogue...like they did for Of Bajor. Her segment of the mission was just way too short and almost like an afterthought. I also didn't like that the cell she was in had a bucket and the object from Odo's quarters seen in the series. I thought that was rather poor taste considering that was an "Odo" reference and not something other Founders used.

The final battle scene in space was also disappointing. I agree with the comments made about the ships not moving. A defiant class ship is just sitting there taking fire? NOT accurate! And it was firing photons (they are equipped with quantums in Canon for starters) instead of firing the phaser cannons? And the bridge scene for that was not very well put together and honestly makes me cringe everytime I watch it. It was obviously that they designed it to show off the Belfast bridge because of the way they panned across from the start. No way was it necessary for the Captain to walk across to his officer to give the order to fire photon torpedoes.

Ultimately, I think the problem that Cryptic (and Perfect World) has is that they may be good in a "technical" sense (i.e. computer generated aspects) but none of them are storytellers. None of them are "writers." What made Star Trek so great is the storytelling and well written episodes that kept us coming back for more each week. That's missing in this series and in other aspects of the game as well. Now, I grant that on occasion they've been good storytellers with certain missions, but there is no consistency to the storytelling. It's so hit and miss from mission to mission that I honestly think they need to hire some actual writers to sit down and flesh out these stories. Then have the technical people in the company put it out in the game for everyone to experience. Maybe they already have that, so I might be way off, but the way I interpret what I'm seeing is that it's the people creating the game that are also writing the stories and they're not all suited for that task. This series highlights that better than others. Great opportunities to tell a story (which they got off to a great start in Second Wave) and have let it go by.

I'm also feeling very disappointed because DS9 is my favorite of all the Trek series and I had very high hopes for this series. Unfortunately, I have been disappointed ever since Of Bajor came out. I can only hope that the final episode in the series is as epic as I had hoped the entire series would be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-04-2012, 08:29 AM
I think it was a really good mission, the map looked ****in' AWESOME. It'd make a really good PVP map if it had a few more corridors to get lost in. I really liked chattting to all the people i'd banged up in prison lol, it was a slightly uncomfortable reunion. If i was REALLY picking out any flaws it was the lack of accolades, at least 2 for picking either to kill the inmates or keeping the, aliive would have been cool - I could imagine a "Jail Bird" title. Anyway, good job Cryptic!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-04-2012, 09:02 AM
I do have to agree about the characterization of the Jem'Hadar. I thought they were being very liberal in regards to the Founder's life. Although to be fair it is kind of difficult to see how this mission could go forward with the fight if the Jem'Hadar weren't willing to endanger the Founder...

Also, I noticed they seem to be giving the Jem'Hadar Hirogen-style ranks (Alpha, Beta, etc.). The only greek titles the Jem'Hadar should have are Alpha (for those bred in the Alpha Quadrant) and Gamma (for those bred in the Gamma Quadrant). The Jem'Hadar rank structure is numerical for each member of each unit (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.).

I'd also like to see the prison map used in either a PvP or PvE environment (or both). It'd be a crime to not see that map again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-04-2012, 11:06 AM
I only remember Beta and Gamma Jem'Hadar, Betas being the ones that were stuck in the wormhole, and Gammas the one the Vorta NPC brought along.

I do agree that the Jem'Hadar characterization was off, but I can see it would be difficult to progress the story and give it a bit more action than "Walk in, talk to Founder, walk out". I also am not opposed to not having to fight the Jem'Hadar fleet; I mean, it was imperative to protect the Vorta and the Changeling in order to start the peace talks.

Also, regarding the length; Of Bajor and Operation Gamma were really lengthy episodes that, in my opinion, dragged on quite a bit. I enjoyed the short sweetness this one had and am looking forward to the last episode.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-04-2012, 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by count23 View Post
I honestly have one question and would love to have someone from Cryptic come back to me on this.

Do they research ANYTHING in depth before they write their stories? The Jem'Hadar depictions are just ridiculous and seem to continue here.

Here we have the Alpha of the Jem'hadar invasion fleet (A Gamma Jem'Hadar from 2376), he's TURNING ON A FOUNDER. This is the same type of jem'hadar from teh same era where they commit mass suicide before they'd harm a founder directly OR indirectly. The jem'hadar are genetically programmed not to harm them and yet this one is freely happy to sick his own men on them (again, 2376 hadar, so you cant say "25 years changes a lot of things"). This is almos as stupid as saying the Jem'hadar hatcheries are giant forcefield covered egg pits as opposed to their cannon depiction of the vat things that they found on DS9.

Add to that, starfleet doesn't have prison facilities like that, they have "reeducation" penal settlements like in New Zealand, or maximum security cells on starbases. Plus... well, yea like forcefield floors are going to stop a founder.

The entire 2800 series has been highly dissapointing, only one missionw as really worth playing (the first one), Of Bajor was patheticlly boring and mission gamma was just tedious.
Jem Hadar Commanders have disobayed and turned on the Dominion and the Founders before in DS9 - see the episode "Hippocratic Oath" (the Vorta never have, and the Vorta in the mission didn't.) So, it's not unheared of. In the mission he also gave the order to: "Kill everyone except the Founder!"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-04-2012, 11:46 AM
I have to agree with a lot of what all of you have said. The map itself is insanely awesome I had a grin on the entire time I was exploring. I liked the touch were some of the Exocomps would fly up to you and take a scan. But I found it really stupid how 1. The security guards went off-line so easily, their should have been some areas that had emergency protocols that kept some holograms online. 2. How did the Vorta get his Jem-hadar on to this high security prison? And I also dont like how Kar'rukan (however you spell it) has his men attack the founder. I mean I would understand disobeying her and just returning to DS9 but to attack her?

The space cutscene was a nice idea but it definitely needs a lot more polish. When Captain Shon is giving orders on his bridge, that was cool and not perfect but it was good enough. But they DEFINITELY need to add more action to the shots from outside. I mean for one have the ships moving, what they had just looked stupid.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 17
03-04-2012, 02:40 PM
I didn't have a choice. It only gave me the option of getting back the prisoners humanely.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-04-2012, 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by laportej
Ultimately, I think the problem that Cryptic (and Perfect World) has is that they may be good in a "technical" sense (i.e. computer generated aspects) but none of them are storytellers.
That is indeed the point of the Foundry. For US to be the storytellers. However (and I've said this before) our missions are never going to be the best they could be while we still have old maps and items in the Foundry (I mean, ESD was updated over a year ago now, and we still have the original map? - c'mon Cryptic!!!)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-04-2012, 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLAK47 View Post
That is indeed the point of the Foundry. For US to be the storytellers. However (and I've said this before) our missions are never going to be the best they could be while we still have old maps and items in the Foundry (I mean, ESD was updated over a year ago now, and we still have the original map? - c'mon Cryptic!!!)
I will agree with you to a point. The Foundry is a place for us to be the storytellers. But, that doesn't excuse Cryptic from not doing a better job of it themselves.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
When this episode startred, I was blown away.
Does not happen too often lately in STO...

The prison facility is superb. It is not every time we get to visit this darker side of Federation establishment. Arguably Federation does want to keep these things away from the sight of "regular citizens".

High security environment, holographic bridges, no human, just photonic pre-programmed personnel, hevaily armed and stationed every few meters...this shows how relentless Federation can be these new days when dealing with its enemies - its no longer the "paradise" of mid 24th century.

All this was great and immersion factor 100% achieved.
Getting founder out of her cell...also fine. We're not there to chit-chat, we're there to get her to the Vorta.

But then....the absolutely illogical part of plot starts to unravel, very consistently with the level of stupidity affecting also previous episodes of this FE series:
  • Jem'Hadar attacking facility? How the *** did they find it. How the *** did they get from DS9 so far without anybody noticing it.
  • Jem'Hadar leader offended by Founder, starts rampage??? This is not Jem'Hadar I know from DS9
  • All that super high tech just goes down like they turned off a switch? Since I didnt beam down with full squad, I was fully expecting that those holo guards will be my NPC team....

My immersion was broken the moment the Jem'Hadar leader showed up. It was plainly stupid, c'mon.
The worst thing is, it was absolutely not necessary. I do not see any reason, that would require this plot point. Prisoners could have been very well freed by:
  • unexpected *technobabble* caused energy outage
  • Klingon / Gorn attack (we're at war right, and this facility is pretty close to Gorn space)
  • successful escape attempt (e.g. that Undine)

I believe this is the overall general problem of this latest FE series. Compared to previous 3 series, this one seems like written by a small child.
Cryptic, did you fire your previous writers or you just don't care anymore???
The last featured series is suffering from extreme stupid plot developments:
  • 2800 fleet staying at DS9 - if they believe war is going on, they should go on and fight it. Do the same thing they were expected to do in 2370-ties. Or at least fly to Cardassia. Occupy Bajor. Spread through whole Beta Ursae... Do not tell me that a 2800-ships fleet commander in Dominion ranks does not have at least the minimum autonomy to keep fighting without Founder babysitting him/her
  • 2800 leading Vorta seems like a stupid spoiled child, unable to look around and see changes compared to 24th C. What is stopping her to spare one, I mean ONE Jem'Hadar attack fighter, send it through wormhole and ask Dominion what is going on? She'd still have 2799 left.
  • Now, is there a war with Klingons going on or not? I know you want to give them access to DS9 because you want share content across Fed and KDF, but there must be a smarter way (maybe requiring just a *little* more work)
  • See above the 4028 issues. Again, the Jem'Hadar leader acts like a spoiled small child.


Overall, when you will be creating next FE, please hire, re-hire or just get some writer into your team, that will make sure the plot makes sense. Plot matters. That's why it is called Featured Episode.

There is only way how this FE series can be saved at the end...everyone gets a bug ship as a special reward
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