Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
03-06-2012, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer
I'm not sure what your "alot of us" equates to, but my "alot of us" thinks Ker'rat is the perfect example of why an actual open instance PvP area would not work. It would basically be Ker'rat w/o Borg (which you can basically experience in Ker'rat with the -50 Borg anyway).
It would make more sense, and the borg could be replaced by appropriate level npc fed and klingon fleets randomly warping in.

You are still justifying it being pure PvP based on a metagaming consideration. If it was a dynamic universe, and the repair cubes were not eliminated, the -50's might fully repair/upgrade/assimilate and end up +50's.

There is nothing in the mission text saying 'there are borg here but the real threat is the other side. Kill them before they salvage anything useful from the borg.' The text says the opposite.

And I am not sure about the version you are in but doesn't the zone automatically approx 3 min after a win? It doesn't simply stay up forever as you implied.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
03-06-2012, 04:19 PM
What if the Borg NPC's were upgraded to STF level difficulty?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
03-06-2012, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
It would make more sense, and the borg could be replaced by appropriate level npc fed and klingon fleets randomly warping in.

You are still justifying it being pure PvP based on a metagaming consideration. If it was a dynamic universe, and the repair cubes were not eliminated, the -50's might fully repair/upgrade/assimilate and end up +50's.

There is nothing in the mission text saying 'there are borg here but the real threat is the other side. Kill them before they salvage anything useful from the borg.' The text says the opposite.

And I am not sure about the version you are in but doesn't the zone automatically approx 3 min after a win? It doesn't simply stay up forever as you implied.
For the Feds: War Zone of Klingon (various words). Not War Zone of Borg (various words).

Mission Text - We must continue fighting for resources to cut off the flow of supplies going back to the Klingon Empire.

No mention of Borg.

For the KDF: Seizing Enemy (various words).

Mission Text - To wage a long-term campaign deep in your enemy's territory, it is necessary to establish and protect a supply route to your forces.

It is even better if you can deny your enemy the supplies they need. As Kahless said, an army without food will trade victory for bread.

It's not Borg territory. It's Fed territory.

As for staying up forever, I never implied that in the least. I did not say anything akin to that in the least. I even mentioned the 4 min timer multiple times.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
03-06-2012, 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1nONLY_DRock
What if the Borg NPC's were upgraded to STF level difficulty?
The Borgs should be the +4 they are in the regular version (based on the level).

@10 they're 14. +4.
@20 they're 24. +4.
@30 they're 34. +4.
@40 they're 44. +4.
@50 they're 54. +4.

It's broken though. Change instances from the one where you first warp in, and you'll see:

@10 they're 0. -10.
@20 they're 0. -20.
@30 they're 0. -30.
@40 they're 0. -40.
@50 they're 0. -50.

Yes, as you level up within that particular first instance - they will not remain +4. At 14, they're 14 - so they're +/- 0.

I feel they should treat it like a Red Alert to an extent. It should "level" everybody up. So if you're there are level 10, you're actually fighting at level 50...and the Borg are 54.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
03-06-2012, 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer
For the Feds: War Zone of Klingon (various words). Not War Zone of Borg (various words).

Mission Text - We must continue fighting for resources to cut off the flow of supplies going back to the Klingon Empire.

No mention of Borg.

For the KDF: Seizing Enemy (various words).

Mission Text - To wage a long-term campaign deep in your enemy's territory, it is necessary to establish and protect a supply route to your forces.

It is even better if you can deny your enemy the supplies they need. As Kahless said, an army without food will trade victory for bread.

It's not Borg territory. It's Fed territory.

As for staying up forever, I never implied that in the least. I did not say anything akin to that in the least. I even mentioned the 4 min timer multiple times.
Its disputed territory (technically the neutral zone, which makes no sense given the treaty was broken).

As for the text, you are omitting the first half 'If we can destroy even half of them it should significantly set back the Borg in this sector'

Denying the Klingons is a secondary objective, and even then the objective is hitting the borg capacity, not the klingons. The end text is 'with the repair facilities destroyed, there is nothing to draw them to the system.

The purpose of the mission may be to set the klingons back but it is by way of hitting the borg, not the klingons, i.e. not via PvP
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
03-06-2012, 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
Its disputed territory (technically the neutral zone, which makes no sense given the treaty was broken).

As for the text, you are omitting the first half 'If we can destroy even half of them it should significantly set back the Borg in this sector'

Denying the Klingons is a secondary objective, and even then the objective is hitting the borg capacity, not the klingons. The end text is 'with the repair facilities destroyed, there is nothing to draw them to the system.

The purpose of the mission may be to set the klingons back but it is by way of hitting the borg, not the klingons, i.e. not via PvP
It is not a PvE mission. You're not heading into a zone where there are just Borg. You're not heading into a zone where there are just Borg and KDF NPCs.

The Feds and KDF are there at the same time. They are attempting to do the same thing at the same time.

Much like you may try to lure the Borg away from a node or may engage the Borg at the node, you are going to also have to keep the KDF or Feds away - either luring them away, killing them elsewhere, or engaging them at the node.

Once again, whether you're racing the opposing faction around the map without firing a single shot or you're killing them so you can scan the node/destroy the hulk... you're involved in PvP.

As for the text, that's the Op message in the zone - that's not the mission text. You get that message whether you have the mission to go to Ker'rat or not. That's part of the "mission" text, not mission text.

You do not have to defeat any Borg to accomplish the "mission" - nor do you have to defeat any Feds or KDF to accomplish the mission.

The mission sends you to Ker'rat against the KDF or the Feds. The "mission" text includes the line about setting the Borg back. Even so, it focuses on the opposing faction.

The mission sends you there against the opposing faction. The "mission" completes when you have destroyed the hulks and...either the Feds or the KDF retreat. Not the Borg.

Again, I'm not saying that the sole purpose of the zone is pew pew PvP. However, for either side to win - they're going to be involved in some form of PvP. It's not a collaborative zone - it's a competitive zone. The Feds and KDF are not working together to destroy hulks to set the Borg back...
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