Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-08-2012, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
do they directly insult you. call you an idiot, a moron, incompetent, greedy, corrupt, swear at you, almost every day, not matter what you do. insult your intelligence, your dedication, your integrity. do you suffer constant abuse all year round?
Why yes Revo, in fact I do. Every day I work, someone gives me death threats, and if its not death threats, it's threats to get me fired, or that they'll beat me up after work. So I know exactly how a high stress job is, and believe me, the dev's jobs are no where near that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-08-2012, 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
do they directly insult you. call you an idiot, a moron, incompetent, greedy, corrupt, swear at you, almost every day, not matter what you do. insult your intelligence, your dedication, your integrity. do you suffer constant abuse all year round?

its not their job to be abused to insulted and when they withdraw themselves for the forums? what happens. oh right they get insulted for no longer communicating. it sickens me the way some members of the forums speak to them. i find it amazing that we just say say to them they should take it and never bite back because its their job. no its not. i know this is the internet but would it kill the players to show some respect. maybe oif they stop attacking them they might get some respect back.

some of the playerbase, and it is only some, deserve to be brought back down to earth once in a while. they show no respect to them and deserve none in return. so i have no sympathy because their feelings have been hurt after the insults they fling at them.
I agree with this. If my clients were so inclined to post in a public setting with the same abusive tone and language as severe, frequent and directed to me (even going as far as personal attacks) as those around here do, it would take a lot of restraint and willpower to not lash out in the same fashion, and I would be demoralized to a point where just showing up to work would be a feat. I could very well deserve criticism or blame for things I did wrong, but I contractually answer to my employer, and I don't see how any company (outside of the gaming industry obviously) would reasonably want to do business with such abusive clients again, as they clearly are more trouble than they are worth.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-08-2012, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adondria
Why yes Revo, in fact I do. Every day I work, someone gives me death threats, and if its not death threats, it's threats to get me fired, or that they'll beat me up after work. So I know exactly how a high stress job is, and believe me, the dev's jobs are no where near that.
I wouldn't characterize that as a "high stress job", more like a "It's a miracle I get home everyday in one piece" situation. I gotta think you either have tuned it out (so it's no longer such a high stressor) or you are compensated very well for being in such a work environment.

Even if it is "ok" for you to take on that kind/level of stress doesn't mean it's "ok" for a different kind/level of stress for another.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-08-2012, 11:08 AM
Actually, I will find the outcome of this interesting and intriguing insight. If, after this conversation, and the direction it's taking, the goal is met and the stats are posted.

Honestly, I'm not going to follow, mostly because I don't have a twitter account, (I don't feel the need to tell the world when I'm eating lunch, thanks!) but also because I don't see it as being worthwhile. What can we do, what is accomplished with us knowing the stats before the ships are released in the C-Store? We can debate, argue, examine, ponder them, but is Cryptic going to be accepting any constructive criticism of the ships' stats? Past history says, 'No.' So why bother?

Besides, at this rate it'll probably happen anyway. I hope folks will enjoy saying 'This doesn't make sense, why is it X, why not Y?' and getting ignored. Again. =P
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-08-2012, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intricated View Post
I wouldn't characterize that as a "high stress job", more like a "It's a miracle I get home everyday in one piece" situation. I gotta think you either have tuned it out (so it's no longer such a high stressor) or you are compensated very well for being in such a work environment.

Even if it is "ok" for you to take on that kind/level of stress doesn't mean it's "ok" for a different kind/level of stress for another.
I think there is a slight disconnect here. Being able to cope or 'tune out' high-impact stressors does not diminish their effect.

And frankly, even if you were in a high-stress job in THIS economy, if you can put food on the table and pay the rent, are you really going to risk being unemployed? Even if your job is bloody well killing you from the stress?

EDIT: Sorry, that should have been a more general 'you' not a directed 'you.' (English: How Does It Effin Work?! =) ) That's a question that has different answers for different people. I'm just trying to point out that some people may have the ability to say 'heck with this job' and get another one, while others are not in a situation where they can do that and have security. For some, loosing that security can be an even bigger stressor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-08-2012, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
ever wondered how the shocking abuse and insults that some members of the playerbase throw at the devs, affect them?
Nope. That's their personal business you know? It's bad form to make that type of thing available to the customers. Customer-facing you know? Some businesses come down very hard (even terminate) employees for that type of thing. Web 2.0 is here and is utilized as a very effective customer service and/or marketing tool. So to me it's just an example of doing a bad job if you're going to let your customers know that you agree with insults levied at the customers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-08-2012, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
no it really, really does matter. and that the problem.
No it absolutely doesn't matter. When you're facing the customer, or interacting with them publically, it is not a good thing to insult them or agree with others insulting them. A lot of places terminate you for doing so. It's bad customer service. It's bad business.

There's no real defense for this you can offer. It's a bad move. A really bad move. It's also not the first time a cryptic employee has done something like that. Which shows it's an acceptable form of interaction at that small company that can't seem to keep employees, hire new ones effectively, or make money.

This company is slammed for its terrible customer service. And that reputation is something they earned. Top to bottom their customer service is atrocious. Their developers will publically lash out at customers. (Stahl, Gozer and now Geko all have incidents related to this). They will stifle criticism. They will put out marketing campaigns that customers react negatively to and call scams. They will create a feedback system that is structurally a broken loop (ticket system doesn't work, no real effective way to talk to a real person to deal with issues). They utilize protocols on their forums and in their game that ignore and bury useful information, ignore and bury bug reports, they have ineffective Q&A, and they consistently try their best to milk their customers for more and more cash but offer hollow customer service and retention.

I mean really, you're going to defend something that is just one small example of a huge tapestry detailing how terrible they are at customer service.

Do you all have any real great examples of them performing great customer service?

And I have to ask, why are so many of you willing to accept bad service?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-08-2012, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Mink
I think there is a slight disconnect here. Being able to cope or 'tune out' high-impact stressors does not diminish their effect.
I may have misused the term stressor; I was referring to situations or objects that could cause a stress reaction, but does not because that individual's body doesn't react in that manner (whether they know it or not). Like Adondria's description of his job is indeed a potential stressor, and likely would be one for a lot of people, but if it's something Adondria has learned to handle within his/her capabilities, then it's not a stressor for them, and thus doesn't cause stress.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-08-2012, 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
No it absolutely doesn't matter. When you're facing the customer, or interacting with them publically, it is not a good thing to insult them or agree with others insulting them. A lot of places terminate you for doing so. It's bad customer service. It's bad business.

There's no real defense for this you can offer. It's a bad move. A really bad move. It's also not the first time a cryptic employee has done something like that. Which shows it's an acceptable form of interaction at that small company that can't seem to keep employees, hire new ones effectively, or make money.
To throw some kerosene-flavored anecdata into the fire, the one and only time I worked retail tech support, it was for a big chain. Serious bucks in corporate. You've probably heard of them but I'll decline making them a target. I don't know if it was the area we were in or the clientele we attracted but we would *routinely* get real gobsmackers as customers in there. Rude, mean, crude.... being called names, being insulted. And we did good work. We routinely got awards from corporate for our service. We routinely were told by our store manager that we were doing good and doing all the right things and hitting the right buttons.

But heavens help us if we ever verbally swung back at a customer. Nobody ever did that while I was there, but it was made clear to us that doing that would result in instant and immediate termination.

It's all well and good to say that the employee of a company should have the right to bite back at a customer. And I would love it if there was no need to get to that. I don't think any person should be subject to ad hominem attacks. And it is a curious and interesting question, and makes for a good rational debate: Should an employee be allowed bite back?

But we're not really talking about that, are we? We're talking about a tweet that blasted a good chunk of the forum community, catching most of the rest in its periphery, and an employee chimes in to agree with said blast. This is not 'biting back.'

As superchum has noted, this is a time period where Web2.0 is part and parcel of a corporate identity. If you identify as the employee of a company, especially if your title has 'Lead' or 'Senior' in it, every word you speak is indelibly linked to the corporation. I have mixed feelings about this, of course. But when corps are asking you (general you) to like them on facebook, follow their twitter feed, etc., that links those forms of communication to the corporation, and encourages people to see communication from members of the corporation through those channels as being from the corp itself. It might be different if companies didn't have facebook pages or twitter feeds. It might be different if employees weren't using those channels for apparently 'official' communications -- and don't think that this 'teasing' wasn't given Cryptic's blessing or is some sort of 'leak.' It's approved all the way up the ladder. At that point, there is no way to differentiate between official and personal communication.

I don't lay that at the feet of Geko, though. This is going to be a continuing problem for all smaller companies that don't go into Web 2.0 without clear-cut policies. I'm not fond of it myself; one wrong move and BOOM, you've stepped on a landmine and got more than egg on your face. But corporate culture has been careening headlong into social media and most corps are not taking appropriate precautions before stuff like this happen.

And now that I have hit you with a wall of text, I will leave it at that and bid you all -- corporation and person -- a good day.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-08-2012, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intricated View Post
I may have misused the term stressor; I was referring to situations or objects that could cause a stress reaction, but does not because that individual's body doesn't react in that manner (whether they know it or not). Like Adondria's description of his job is indeed a potential stressor, and likely would be one for a lot of people, but if it's something Adondria has learned to handle within his/her capabilities, then it's not a stressor for them, and thus doesn't cause stress.
(Sorry, I know I said I would leave it at that, but I had to reply to this.)

I must somewhat strongly disagree with part of this. While someone may respond to stressors in different ways -- mask it, bury it, (try to) ignore it (but see below), fry it up with fava beans and a light chainti -- and one person's stressors may not be the same as another's, one does not really ever really completely eliminate stress without removing the stressor. Let me rephrase: Being able to handle a stressor does not mean that it can be discounted or does not exist. It will be and always be causing stress as long as it is present, no matter how it is handled.

Clearly, to Adondria, receiving death threats is a stressor (based on the context of their posts in relation to the discussion.) How they 'handle' it is important for their day-to-day coping mechanism, and those of their co-workers, but does not diminish that there is a stressor. Indeed, many ways of 'handling' a stressor that make it seem like it is no longer a stressor, in fact make the stress much, much worse.

This being said, you are right in that one person's stress is another person's "What's all the fuss about then?" The question of what is a stressor and what is not is a difficult one in mental health to answer since it is so messily darn subjective. It's not objective like, "EET'S NAWT AH TOOMAH!" =)
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