Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
03-10-2012, 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer
You'll also see me referring to them as -50 (-X). They are level 0. At level 50, they are -50. At level 22, they are -22. The -X is basically how many levels it would take to get to 0 from your level. You're level 34? They're -34. You're 16? They're -16.

Have you literally never changed instances? Go into Ker'rat, once there, click on the zone name at the top of the mini-map, and click on change instance. Try one of the less populated instances in the list to give you the best chance to fly in range of a Borg to see. If you're 22, they're -22. You're 36, they're -36.

At 50, the first instance you go into - they'll be +4, they're 54. Much like at 20, they're 24, 30 they're- 34, 40 they're 44. Depending n where you are sub 50, they may be above or below your level. Change from that initial instance, and tada...they're -X, where whatever level you are is the X. They're level 0. There's no reward for completing the "mission" and they only drop Mk I loot if you kill them.
You do realize that mob level does not need to use the same scale as player level. Even if they are listed as level 0, you can't simply take them all on at once even at level 20+. I have gotten better than level 1 drops from killing them.

Quote:
There are not enough KDF players regardless of level... it has been my experience that it is rare to see more than 1-2 KDF outside of a few folks that might cluster together, in which case you might see 4-5.

It's more likely to see a group of Red Feds than a group of KDF in my experience in Ker'rat. That does not mean that is always the case. Just from my experience in farming Dil on four toons a day.
You are making my case. Because there are insufficient Klingons, they end up acting like some sort of partisan resistance movement (which is extra wierd since they started the war...... when you start a war in which you are very much out numbered, don't you normallly lose quickly?).

If there were more KDF, there would be incentive for both sides to try to beat the PvE mission, and meaning to them shooting each other while doing so.

Quote:
Would your table tennis possibly involve 2 v 1? What about 3 v 5? What about 4 v 9? Could it involve a player in a Tac Retro fighting against three players flying a pair of Kar'Fi and a Vo'Quv? What about three Tac Retros on a single Bortas? What about a five person team from the same fleet on voice comms that has been flying together for over a year going up against five random people that have never seen each other before that particular spawn?
Other than the KDF being better represented so that there would be just as much chance as 9 vs 4 as 4 vs 9, yes, I think you might be finally getting it. PvP only needs to be fair on average to work. It doesn't need to be fair in each and every engagement. But to work, it needs both sides to have similar manpower. This is why it often doesn't work in MMO's... invariably one side is more popular than the other, leading to systematic imbalances. In STO this is particularly the case since the game is set up to encourage people o play Fed rather than KDF.


Quote:
Did I say that you said that?
When you are responding to me, what is the point of bringing up the false logic of others?

Quote:
I mentioned earlier in this thread while having the discussion about "lines" - that I've gotten in trouble over some of the things I've said to those that have gloated or tried to whip their epeen across the screen for certain things.

What problems in design make certain tactics cheap and cheesy?
The imbalance between Fed and KDF numbers make the PvE challenge pretty much meaningless for the KDF. This means they are simply playing spoiler when hitting Feds engaged with the Borg, which leads to bad feelings among the Feds and at best cheap thrills for the KDF. If the numbers were balanced out better, then there would be a point to such tactics. The KDF would not be simply getting a cheap kill but slowing the Feds down would stand a better chance of enabling a KDF win.

In addition, the respawn design means that KDF tend to respawn in the middle of a pack of Feds. This is problematic even if the numbers were equal.

As for attacks against you, I apologize for any degree to which my posts seem personal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92
03-10-2012, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer
I would assume (and yes, I could be woefully wrong) that you do not even see the vast majority of the AFK folks in Ker'rat. Since you do not need to be "spawned" for credit, they'll often sit there dead at the respawn.

They will generally sit at the computer while this is happening. In order to get the credit for the mission, they need to complete it and accept it again every three times.

So unless they're running a bot, they're not really AFK - so to speak. They might go AFK from time to time, come back, go away again, etc - checking in on it.

Ker'rat is where you go to watch TV, a movie, surf the internet, eat dinner, etc, etc, etc - while somebody else farms Dilithium for you...

...it also has more interesting chat than ESD, imho - and definitely has less of babble that may leave you wanting to stab your eyes out that ESD (and even Qo'nos) has.

Eh, so that kinda sucks. I'm killing AFKers, but it makes no difference, as they get completion even if they're dead when the goals are completed (and they've not yet respawned)???

Good lord, what lazy design.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
03-10-2012, 01:01 PM
WHy on earth would you want to get rid of this mission? It's the only one on STO that makes the whole thing worth while. It's just pure good fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
03-10-2012, 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArykGrev View Post
Eh, so that kinda sucks. I'm killing AFKers, but it makes no difference, as they get completion even if they're dead when the goals are completed (and they've not yet respawned)???

Good lord, what lazy design.

To be fair, what happens if you die right before the completion?

They really can't force the respawn either, because of spawn camping.

I still say that if they addressed the various bugs, then fewer people would AFK. Take a look at how long it takes to complete that first instance when you go in, where the Borg are an actual threat - compared to when they are no threat at all.

When they are +4, you can't leave it to one or two people to do it like when they are -50. I believe it would make a world of difference... but then again, I also believe that it is not in their best interest to fix it. I can't remember if it was this thread or another where I said it, but face it - the people farming Dil in Ker'rat to convert to CP are working for PWE/Cryptic (somewhere between 10 to 26 cents an hour). They farm the Dil to exchange, while others are buying CP to exchange for Dil.
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