Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-06-2012, 04:36 AM
Personally I don't find the DS-9 OPS looks spectacular. On the contrary.

But apart from that, I am afraid the Foundry strongly favours builders with flexibility and imagination

How is this: On your own Foundry DS-9 you place a security officer where the door to the OPS is: he can be clicked for a conversation (AND a mission "find makeshift OPS") like:

SO: I am sorry Sir, but OPS had to be sealed due to a plasma fire.
PC: You mean I can't go in?
SO: No one can. A repair team is allready at work, but the chief estimates at least 3 days until it will be fully operational again.
PC: Where is everybody now?
SO: The Station Commander has set up Operations in the old Security Office back from the Cardassian reign.
PC: How do I get there?
SO: Just take the cargo lift at the end of the corridor. It leads directly to the makeshift OPS.
PC: Thank you.
SO: Good day, Sir.

Then the player finds his way to a custom interior map, made of Cardassian props.

Personally I find this (makeshift) workaround quite inspiring for a whole story.
Was the plasma fire sabotage? Is there something to be discovered in that old Cardassian computer system now that it is intensely used? Did someone even forsee where the makeshift OPS would going to be and arranged all this, so that the old computer sytems there would be reactivated?

Canon is important. But imagination is EVERYTHING.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-06-2012, 05:44 AM
I really admire your way of thinking, but in my own story this wouldn't make much sence. For me this is working around oversights, not beeing creative. It's working around shortcoming of the foundry. But I do appreciate your guys feedback and suggestions... I'll give it some thoughts. Though I do really hope that they will add OPS soon. I really need it.

Now I know what you are saying about OPS. But I kinda like it. It's a bit rough, but still, OPS looked great in the featured series! Still, the Foundry is still in its Beta. So I guess its normal that we run into these kind of problems. I do hope DEVs read this stuff though. The missing of OPS is REALLY something they should look into.

I'm a programmer myself and they should also really look into us beeing able to create cutscenes. Shouldn't be that difficult. I kinda have the system on how to do it in my head....But still....First the content in Foundry should get some attention first. Looking forward to the future of the Foundry though!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-06-2012, 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shredy777
It's working around shortcoming of the foundry.
I agree 100%. The Foundry is full of shortcomings. But having worked with several popular editors I found that each and every one had it's own shortcomings.

even basic things like
- no inventory
- no jumping/swimming
- no 1st person
- no 3rd person
- no FPS aim
- no quest system

Workarounds are part of the game I am afraid
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-06-2012, 07:48 AM
I totally agree with you on that. There will always be those shortcomings. It's a logical fact when you try to imply something like the foundry in an MMO. Still though, this fact should not be used as a constant excuse. (Not that I'm saying that Cryptic is using it this way).

For every problem there is a solution. Technology-wise, only our imagination will lay the boundries of what can be achieved. Ofcourse there is the money side of things. Cryptic still is a company. And companies want to earn money, and I do fully agree on that fact. If i were to start a company, I would like to earn money, who doesnt? But adding these little things to the foundry, shoudn't be much work. It will keep us happy! These maps already exist, and we can do the testing for them, don't we now?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-06-2012, 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shredy777
I totally agree with you on that. There will always be those shortcomings. It's a logical fact when you try to imply something like the foundry in an MMO. Still though, this fact should not be used as a constant excuse. (Not that I'm saying that Cryptic is using it this way).

For every problem there is a solution. Technology-wise, only our imagination will lay the boundries of what can be achieved. Ofcourse there is the money side of things. Cryptic still is a company. And companies want to earn money, and I do fully agree on that fact. If i were to start a company, I would like to earn money, who doesnt? But adding these little things to the foundry, shoudn't be much work. It will keep us happy! These maps already exist, and we can do the testing for them, don't we now?
Seeing as how the Foundry is just a port of the Neverwinter Nights UGC Tool, I'd say it would be quite a bit of work to add new assets into the Foundry. Have to keep in mind that the Foundry was not designed for Star Trek Online, it was designed and developed for the Neverwinter Nights MMO and simply ported over to STO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-12-2012, 07:28 PM
The crappy thing is I suspect Ops may actually be in the DS9 map, but we have no way of accessing it.

I did some investigation where I did a /loc in Ops and Quarks on the real DS9. The coordinates provided were extremely negative numbers. I converted them to the Foundry coordinate system by dividing by 3.281, but the problem is the Foundry doesn't let you enter numbers negative enough to put the spawn point down where Ops and Quarks are supposed to be.

The less negative of the two was still something like -300, and the Foundry capped me at -50 or so.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-12-2012, 07:55 PM
I noticed by screwing with some maps that the coders did that with ESD. All the sublevels of DS9, ESD and AFAIK all the other starbases are a single map with sublevels located the the side of the map. Often they're seperated vertically but not always.

EDIT: After further research..... the DS9 foundry map does NOT contain any vestige of Quark's or Ops. Unlike the ESD map which has several sublevels that don't conenct to the main map, DS9 doesn't seem to have any of those.

BTW: some of ESD's sublevels are actually cool to look at. Especially the Beta version of the shipyard.
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