Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
03-14-2012, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by japfi
I dare you all to bring your "Pay2Win" ships into PVP.. and my Bird of Prey.. which I got for free.. will roll you all every time. It's not about the ship, its about the user and understanding what their ship is and isn't capable of. I can't wait to see all the posts a week later by Tac officers crying.. "THE TAC ODYSSEY DOESN'T DO ENOUGH DPS!" Thinking they are going to make the Cruiser/Escort Hybrid.
I am a little rusty, but I doubt it. If I sit myself in any Cruiser, I don't think there are many single players that could beat me. That's just how tough Cruisers are, not really my skill. And still, with the Odysee, I would be a little better at it than I would be in an Assault Cruiser.

In the end, Pay-To-Win, regardless of the name, doesn't mean selling IWin Buttons. It means selling something that gives you a mechanical advantage over someone that didn't spend that money. If the other guy is still 10 times better than you, you will probably still lose. But that's not a sensible comparison.
Give me the last world championship winner F1 car, and Micheal Schuhmacher the loser of the F1 championship 5 years ago, and he'll still win against me. But you can bet that every F1 team will work hard to make the best car they can...
You need to take two equally or similarily strong players and have them duel. In STO, you probably shouldn't bother with a Cruiser duel if both sides are equally strong (unless they are both very weak), as it's an eternal fight until someone falls asleep. You usually need burst in a 1v1 to kill anything, and Cruisers don't have that. A group of Cruisers may reach enough DPS to overpower non Cruisers, though... I don't think that works for 1v1...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
03-14-2012, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Mink
Or "Pay For Power." Which is to my mind more accurate. You're not buying "I Win" buttons, but you are buying measurably 'better' things.
Well you could see it that way, doesnt change the result.

Fact is: I dont really like the pay two win or pay for power concept, but I can live with it.
It becomes gamebreaking at the point where it even ruins the fun ALTHOUGH beeing willing to pay, and that is EXACTLY HERE.
I like my Souvereign. But I want my ship as strong as possible.
So I bought tons of low-tier ships to put the consoles into my beloved Souvereign.

But now we are on the point where I, no matter how much I'm willing to pay, wont be able to fly MY ship any more AND stay competitive.

Now the ONLY way to stay competitive is flying the Ugly-whale-MKII.

And I simply dont like the looks of it. At all. I will N E V E R set a foot on one of those.
So until further, my Eng is retired now. I will not go into STFs or PVP with a significantly weaker ship. And I will not pick an Odysee because... well... it sucks.
Game over for this char.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBFLordKrueg View Post
Well, look at it this way...
The game is totally free to play now, no money needed or earned...
So, they have to have something to sell you to make money to continue to fund the Dev team and resources needed to keep the online status.
So, they make these "slightly better than the free" ships, which the need to be to convince folks to buy them
after all, why buy them if they're not better than what you can get for free?
If they have a good amount of sales, they're happy and continue to pump rescources into STO to keep it going and (hopefully) improve it.
No sale = unhappy company, possible layoffs, unwillingness to continue to sink money and resources into the game to keep it going...

So...which would you rather...?
You know, Cryptic is shooting themselfes in the foot with thois one in terms of money.
Yeah. PPL will buy the NEW ships.
But there IS a choice of t5 ships already there and no reason left to buy any of those.
That also alienates those who already payed for those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
I used to play this MMORPG awhile back where if I wanted the best item in the game for my character I would have to play the game to get it. And do so in co-op mode.

I know, crazy concept isn't it?
Thats not cool.... thats sooo... Ambassador you know?^^
Paying for good stuff is cool! Having the best equip without even knowing how to make a group is SO cool; you know, Excelsior-style^^

The saddest thing: The ONLY end game equip that is not a matter of just buying it are the STF sets wich suck to get, too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
03-14-2012, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart
Yes you can convert dilithium to C-Store points, however I think it's safe to say that path is impractical to anyone but the most hardcore dilithium grinders given the price tag of these
I disagree - I do some, not all of the dailies on a semi-regular basis, and in about 2.5 weeks have enough for over 1000 Cryptic points. You don't have to be a hardcore dilithium farmer to accumulate it - they give you a daily DOFF mission that essentially gives you 2,000 free ore - each elite STF gives you over 1,000, playing Foundry missions gives you more...

In my opinion, if you knew that the ship(s) were coming to the C-Store since January, and played the game on even a semi-regular basis, with the view of even casually collecting dilithium, you'd have more than enough by now to make your purchase.

If, on the other hand, you haven't invested any time into the game, and suddenly want instant gratification, well then you're going to have to give up some cash.

I am, however, concerned that these ships set a standard that the other ships may no longer be able to compete with - hopefully their in-game application will prove my concern wrong. I already see so many of these ships flying around game that I'm concerned that sector space is going to become saturated with the same ship for some time. So many cool features on one ship that I feel a little left out knowing that I don't want to fly one. That's my own issue, I suppose.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
03-14-2012, 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFR_MACO_Specialist
Of course, you are correct, I think many people forget at the end of the day Cryptic is a business and the number one goal of any business is to make money now and in the future. They will pitch the price what they believe the market can stand, too high and they will still get sales but lose out on volume, too low and the ROI will take too long. Thus I feel they have pitched it about right to get a reasonable ROI in a reasonable time frame.
Let's also not forget that at the end of the day Cryptic is a business that has been sold twice. Perhaps their business model isn't generating enough profit? Is this current model pulling its weight? You really think they're working under a reasonable time frame for ROI?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
03-14-2012, 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Let's also not forget that at the end of the day Cryptic is a business that has been sold twice. Perhaps their business model isn't generating enough profit? Is this current model pulling its weight? You really think they're working under a reasonable time frame for ROI?
I seriously doubt all the money that is being grabbed from this game through means as aggressive as they are immoral is going back into STO. I wouldn't really have a problem (well I would, but it wouldn't taste as bitter) if it was.

Personally I hope neverwinter dies a horrible death very shortly after launch
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
03-14-2012, 10:15 AM
Yay, can't wait to get mine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
03-14-2012, 10:21 AM
Edited as now irrelevant
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
03-14-2012, 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
But now we are on the point where I, no matter how much I'm willing to pay, wont be able to fly MY ship any more AND stay competitive.
Well, that's been a problem for STO since the beginning. People want to fly their favorite ship all the time but they really... well, they could, but they get severe disadvantages. There's no real rational way to, for example, explain how one can upgun a Miranda (my favorite ship) into something that could be equivalent to a Sovereign.

Which is unfortunate, but kinda makes sense. Even if one assumes that the Miranda has dual phaser cannons, a ship like that -- at best a light cruiser (though I sometimes view it as a light battlecruiser developed in response to the D-7 or K't'inga (and yes, I'm well aware of what happened at Jutland and of Jackie Fisher's "Dreadnought Math")) --should not be able to go against a Sovereign; if nothing else, it's just too small.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
03-14-2012, 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanwoodcock

I am curious why create 3 variants of the same ship in the 1st place?
I don't want to say the devs are lazy, but it probably takes less work to add or change specs than to design new ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
03-14-2012, 10:29 AM
The thing is, they've obsoleted other C-store ships with it as well. Cryptic have totally screwed the pooch in order for a short term cash grab, and that doesn't speak volumes about their confidence in this games longevity, especially considering their comments regarding resources vs payoff with the latest FE.
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