Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Hey Pendra,

Instead of crashing that other thread, can we use this one to fix Helna of Troy.

I played your test mission. Unfortunately, I played it as intended so I couldn't tell if I can move the cages prior to fighting. Every time I drop and re-enter, the mission is complete. I guess I have to wait 30 minutes or so.

I think my problem here was trying to work with invis walls, which seem to be broken in conjunction with triggers. I spent like 3 hours trying to do this thing 8 different ways.

Another big problem was that the invis object set to appear using multiple component completes was no longer doing the either or thing.

I tried putting an invis in the spot, setting it to appear (and thus become interactable) with component complete A (death of Devidians) and component complete B (the Orions.)

It was not appearing because one of the groups was not dying.

I also tried using two different invis objects, one set to appear with death of component A and the other tied to B. When it came to moving the cages, it then got messed up being attached to both invis objects. Again, the either or thing didn't work.

So, please tell me exactly how your test mission is set up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-20-2012, 07:47 PM
There are two ways to do either/or objectives that I know of.

1) Based on a bug: Something that is set to trigger off a map dialogue will always happen after that dialogue completes, even if the other trigger conditions haven't been met. So, if you set something to occur and set the trigger to two different dialogues, it will actually trigger after EITHER of those dialogues completes.

2) The other way is using dialogue prompt reached to determine the "split" conditions (what changes about the map), and dialogue complete to allow the mission to move forward (lower a force field, etc).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-20-2012, 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
There are two ways to do either/or objectives that I know of.

1) Based on a bug: Something that is set to trigger off a map dialogue will always happen after that dialogue completes, even if the other trigger conditions haven't been met. So, if you set something to occur and set the trigger to two different dialogues, it will actually trigger after EITHER of those dialogues completes.

2) The other way is using dialogue prompt reached to determine the "split" conditions (what changes about the map), and dialogue complete to allow the mission to move forward (lower a force field, etc).

Thanks Nag. I'll try experimenting further. It's frustrating that so many of these things seem inconsistent with how they are meant to work. I know that I tried changing the state of objects using multiple dialogue triggers and it did not work.

I also know that I tried making a popup visible based on the either or deaths of npcs, which didn't work at the time. So, it's getting frustrating to have a unifying dialogue appear on a map after branching has gone through 3 or 4 branching, optional objectives.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-21-2012, 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
There are two ways to do either/or objectives that I know of.

1) Based on a bug: Something that is set to trigger off a map dialogue will always happen after that dialogue completes, even if the other trigger conditions haven't been met. So, if you set something to occur and set the trigger to two different dialogues, it will actually trigger after EITHER of those dialogues completes.

2) The other way is using dialogue prompt reached to determine the "split" conditions (what changes about the map), and dialogue complete to allow the mission to move forward (lower a force field, etc).
OMG that 1. bug is massive. I noted that dialog component completes are bugged some way, so I never used it. Instead, I made my officers comment most component completes. This converted the component complete into dialogs events and then I could use the dialog prompt reached.
Anyway great find! In the world of ANDs this is the first OR. Slight problem is that when they fix it, the mission would cease to function.

I use the classical area denial technique. Imagine 4 forcefields walls from 4 sides protecting the next objective. It is enough to bring down only 1 of the 4 to access the objective.
That means you can have 4 completely different pathways, and you need to complete only 1 to move on. In logical terms, this is
If (Path1 is complere) OR
(Path2 is complete) OR
(Path3 is complete) OR
(Path4 is complete)
THEN Access next objective

@Kirkfat PM Sent
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-21-2012, 05:57 PM
Ok, Pendra. I think that I understand. Unfortunately, it's more complicated in my setup.

Let's see if I can explain. The first choice is not who to kill. It is bow or resist. From that first choice comes two different groups of mastiffs, then klingons, then another choice that brings either devidians or Orions. It is the same chain of events after the second choice of "resist."

So, there are 4 enemy groups: Orions A and B, Devidians A and B. I think for this trick to work, I would need to do the following: Have 4 different cages surrounding the prof, one of each that moves according to one component complete. I fear that will confuse the player.

Or I can use one invis object, set to spawn with the death of each group. The problem then means that I can't make the stationary cages disappear unless all four groups are dead. Or, I'd have to replace the original unmoved cages with 4 pairs of new ones, That is 8 assets and the map is at 300. I'd have to delete trees or fire.

Even then, I don't think I could make the original unmoved cages disappear.

Does that make sense?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-16-2012, 01:32 PM
Forgive my newbness, but something Pendra said sparked an idea and I wanted to run it past the experts.

Using the "area denial" effect and knowing that forcefields can block triggers, what about a trigger object placed underground and a horizontal forcefield placed just under the surface?

Theoretically, you could walk right over the objective and never be able to reach it until the hidden forcefield was dropped.

Or is it not possible to place a forcefield this way?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-16-2012, 01:39 PM
That would work of course. There is a horizontal forcefield. Depending on the size and shape of the hole, you can have 1, 2 or 4 concurent paths to enter the trigger area.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-16-2012, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
There are two ways to do either/or objectives that I know of.

1) Based on a bug: Something that is set to trigger off a map dialogue will always happen after that dialogue completes, even if the other trigger conditions haven't been met. So, if you set something to occur and set the trigger to two different dialogues, it will actually trigger after EITHER of those dialogues completes.
Unfortunately I have a strong suspicion that the Devs would fix a helpful bug like that, and of course ignore more damaging bugs. I believe that this behavior is some sort of universal constant among various Dev teams, and as Scotty would say "I canna change the laws of physics!"
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