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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-21-2012, 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Usually in STO, there is no "order of operations". There are basically two concepts:
1) Multiply stuff. Like Shield Resistance. 10 % shield resist means a damage multiplier of 0.9. If you got 10% twice, you get 0,9 * 0,9 = 0,81 = 19 % shield resist.
Actually since Season 5 this isn't true anymore. When I last checked in January, shield resists are back to being additive. I haven't noticed anything in patch notes addressing this issue.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-22-2012, 01:23 AM
Interesting. Something for this thread: http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=4113056
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-22-2012, 01:51 AM
It's amazing that CaptainGeko has written both the detailed explanation of the damage math that Mustrum quoted and also
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko
The tactical ship has an extra tactical console that has the potential to grant +30%-ish damage. [...] All values are subject to dim returns.
Apparently there is a severe disconnect between knowing the formulas and understanding what they actually mean for damage, in particular that dim returns reduce a "+30%-ish" console to ~7.5% by simply being VA and decently spec'd.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-22-2012, 05:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
It's amazing that CaptainGeko has written both the detailed explanation of the damage math that Mustrum quoted and also

Apparently there is a severe disconnect between knowing the formulas and understanding what they actually mean for damage, in particular that dim returns reduce a "+30%-ish" console to ~7.5% by simply being VA and decently spec'd.
I had thought that diminishing returns applied to equipping more than one bonus from a console of the same type at a time. For example, Id get diminishing returns if I equipped more than one Phaser Emitter Array. I did not know, nor do I think, that you do not get the full 198% bonus for using both Starship weapons Training and Starship energy weapons specialization because my testing tells me that I do.

As it is now, I have a cruiser that I have 370% more damage applied permanently to the base damage of its Phaser beam arrays; before using Bridge officer skills. Then with a power level set at or above 100, which adds on another 300% on top of my base DPS. Therefore, with a base damage of 80dps, Im doing 670% more or roughly, 616 DPS per beam. That gives me a total of about 2400 damage per cycle on one beam array, assuming every beam hits. Multiply that by three or six beam arrays and that is some serious base damage before using any skills!

Of course, this doesnt take into effect my opponents resistances on his/her shields or Hull. But my testing shows that the figures Im working with are fairly accurate and are even under-estimated values as I did not know that accuracy added a slight bonus to DPS as well. Ill get that figured in eventually for a more accurate picture.

Lastly, I would need to figure in bonuses from accolades and etc.! And finally, the reason I needed the order of operations so badly is due to one simple fact. If my skills bonuses apply after my fixed bonuses are calculated in, Id be able to do a huge amount of damage verses, those bonuses being applied to the base damage as everything else seems to be. With more testing, Ill figure it out on my own

I'm not yet ready to release my spreedsheet math, but... when I am, I'd like to send it to someone else here on the forums to have a look and review it, before putting it up as a wiki or whatever.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-22-2012, 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
It's amazing that CaptainGeko has written both the detailed explanation of the damage math that Mustrum quoted and also

Apparently there is a severe disconnect between knowing the formulas and understanding what they actually mean for damage, in particular that dim returns reduce a "+30%-ish" console to ~7.5% by simply being VA and decently spec'd.
Of course - wouldn't the same math apply to a +33 % damage bonus from Sensor Analysis? But your own test results show that the +33 % damage bonus yields notably more damage. Is t his another thing for the "Working as Intended" thread?

And while Geko posted these formulas - how well have we tested them? Do the numbers actually fit?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-22-2012, 06:08 AM
I did some rough calculations yesterday and the formula seems to point in the right direction, at least with regard to what is additive and what is multiplicative. But I did not look up the supposed base damage value, so I cannot confirm the exact values of the involved numbers.

What is weird though is that this explanation mentions a ship tier specific component of the formula. I thought that this damage-dependence on ship tier was removed sometime during S1 or S2. I haven't tested lately whether this is still the case or whether maybe this is another example of ancient code making a comeback.

Interestingly enough heals also scale with ship tier and this has never been removed and makes playing a lower tier ship really so much less fun than it could be. My Golfball's heals are laughable.

And regarding Sensor Analysis: SA boosts everything, including basically all sci abilities. So it makes sense that it is multiplicative rather than additive.


Fun task for testing: Build up SA against a target, get scrambled, use a heal on the enemy. Is the heal getting boosted by SA?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-22-2012, 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
I did some rough calculations yesterday and the formula seems to point in the right direction, at least with regard to what is additive and what is multiplicative. But I did not look up the supposed base damage value, so I cannot confirm the exact values of the involved numbers.

What is weird though is that this explanation mentions a ship tier specific component of the formula. I thought that this damage-dependence on ship tier was removed sometime during S1 or S2. I haven't tested lately whether this is still the case or whether maybe this is another example of ancient code making a comeback.
That is odd!

The only Tier component I have put in my formulas is that of the Mark on weapons. It is roughly 10% more damage per rank. This percentage is applied to the standard base damage. Thus, a possible 120% to base damage using Mark XII gear. That does not include bonuses due to rarity; =such as Accuracy or Critical damage etc.

My testing results, so far are very close to what I calculated on paper for my specific ship. There is a small margin of error that Im not able to account for yet. But, Im in the ballpark! Sometimes I do 100 damage more than expected, sometimes 100 damage or so less.
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