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I didn´t use the word lunatic, that´s why I put it in quotation marks.
Seriously guys look at how JamJamz talks about stuff in the game (ships) and trek in general and then this community directly do you really find that to be appropriate is this a person you really desire to have working on the game. He showed he has no respect for us as a community or trek in general.
I never said size matters, I just don't think that the Ambassador should be able to compete with any of the other T5 ships. And return on time... who really uses the Excelsior refit? Really... I've seen a spattering of them, but they're certainly not popular.
Even creating the Ambassador (as a refit, of course) as a T5 ship, to keep the majority of peace, we'd have to make it weak compared to other ships -- thus making it more or less worthless.
It "should" be in-game, sure. So should a lot of other things, things that are higher on the priority list, and will remain higher on the priority list.
I personally don't like the Ambassador design, there's exactly nothing innovative about it, creating a refit design would be cool though, but then we're not making the Ambassador, and people don't like that.
There's nothing special about it that makes it worth pushing up on the priority list. It's simply a weak T5 ship, even after a refit. We could gimmick a console that does something cool on it... but then we'd have a poop-storm of people complaining that it doesn't look like the original one, it's a c-store gimmick, with a lame console, it's weak... blah blah blah.
If we make it strong, and useful... another poop-storm would erupt, likely a larger one, complaining that it's too strong, it's an old ship that shouldn't be more powerful than modern ships... blah blah blah.
You know it. I agree, it should be in the game, but there are other things that NEED to be put in the game before it, things that will actually affect a large portion of players, the Ambassador will never get a chance to do it.
So... no, the Ambassador will likely not be up on the list of things to do soon, higher priorities, you know... like content players will use
If you're so concerned about the Ambassador appearing weak, just make it as a skin for the Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit -- that way people can fly their (in my opinion, inappropriately powerful) Excelsior OR Ambassador at T5 in 2409. Keep in mind there are now 20 different Tier 5 ships available to Federation captains.
Your argument that other ships are higher priorities may have a bit more traction if the recent releases weren't for the two shuttle releases (Chaffee and Yellowstone) last month. Also, is it so impossible to get some ships that aren't in lock boxes or from C-Store? It's been done before -- the Captain's Yacht (Vet Reward), Dujhod Shuttle (Vet Reward), Toron Shuttle, Type 8 Shuttle, Delta Flyer (crafting mission), K'Tanco Battle Cruiser, Advanced Heavy Cruiser (before it went to C-Store exclusive), Advanced Research Vessel (before it went to C-Store exclusive), Federation Dreadnought Cruiser (referral reward before C-Store option), and Vor'cha Battle Cruiser Retrofit, not to mention the VA retrofits that were once available to everyone. The only ship that qualifies in the last year is the inferior versions of the Odyssey/Bortas ships, which were only available for a week.
Originally Posted by JamJamz
I'm terribly confused, The Excelsior isn't as popular with the masses as you may think. Perhaps among forum goers, which are generally people that are a bit more passionate about eccentric aspects of the game than "joe-schmoe-regular-player-dude"
I understand you're confused, but it actually has been historically a very popular ship in STO. However, the two major blows that affect its current usage was removing the Excelsior from being available for energy credits (and then charging 800 C-Points, which has a current cost of about 200,000 refined dilithium whereas other Tier 3 ships cost just 40,000 refined dilithium) and secondly, the release of the freebie Odyssey (which is the most popular in terms of usage, despite being inferior).
Originally Posted by JamJamz
Is the Ambassador really that special that it would be worth setting aside new things for? My vote is a big fat "hells naw."
A resounding yes! I know schedules change and priorities are altered all the time but if people sound impatient, it's because the EP said in June 2011 we'd have the Ambassador class by August 2011 and then in September CapnLogan said it'd be done by December.
It seems many, not most, and certainly not all, forum posters take Star Trek waaaay too seriously.
Remember... this is the universe with space Abe Lincoln.... Abe Lincoln... in space. .... The 14th President of the US... in space.
This is also the universe where some random person can launch a star ship tens of billions of light years away.... OH, and back again.
This is also the universe where there are societies on planets that are nearly indistinguishable from 1930s big-city America...
Let's not forget that people can teleport just about anywhere, but still take elevators.
When I watch Star Trek, the complete, utter, insanity that takes place makes me laugh. The insanity on the forums is very similar. It's always here for a good laugh.
Lots of people are nice though, this thread has it's pile of people that like the changes (you haven't seen anything yet!)... and those people I love more than the whiners, of course.
I'm a one man team, I'm making ships that I like right now, the D'Kora being one of my favorites. Next up is a ship nobody has seen before... well... several, actually.
And, no, it's not the Ambassador. I've got to make high tier ships before making low tier ships, sorry, that's just the way it is. Besides, that thing looks goofy.
On another note, while I'm here... maybe the people who care more about ship stats than the looks (I have nothing for you.) can answer...
What's so bad about having a variety of energy types for weapons on your ship? I did a few Elite STFs for the first time, and every time at least two people on the team went ape-s**t because of it... yet we completed the optional objectives fine, nobody died... Are they just mad that my ship looked prettier than theirs?
What was the point of this? Yes, I do see we got much of what was on there, but why not finish the list? It was player feed back. A direction of where to go with ships was it not? I know it is WAY before your time though, but does that invalidate that? Government's don't start anew when officials are changed.
CapLogan did an amazing job with the Venture/2409 look though, that personally I was happy with the Ambassador sliding ever further down the 'design' list. Then the Jem ship, then the Cardi ship, but there was the Odyssey that was a nice ship, that I currently fly. All the while still hoping that the Last Enterprise would finally make it in.
Wasn't it Al in one of the more recent STOked episodes that said the Excel was the most popular ship, due to fans high demand for it? I think when the Enterprise-F came out people were saying, 'wouldn't be a great wallpaper OR marketing point that ALL the Enterprise were in the game if the Ambassador FINALLY made it in the game?
I just see it as people have given you guys examples of how we would spend our money, but get something different. Luckily, the 2409 ships were well received. I just can't believe I went from watching and being apart of one 'vocal minority' and coming here to feel the exact same way again.
The T5 Cruiser-space is already overpopulated. It will be incredibly hard to find a space for this ship that will A) be unique and B) Please players and make the ship desirable to the players that actually want this ship to begin with.
Visually the ship does not stand out, specifically because of it's original design as a bridge between Excelsior and the Galaxy.
That's a good point. So, why not simply add the Ambassador Class as a ship-costume for the Envoy Class, which already shares the same general profile and positioning? Not all ships really need to be Tier 5.
Technology and when things were originally built argument was thrown to the wayside a long time ago with other old ships being put in game and T5's of ships being available that people thought wouldn't be a T5.
Sorta like how in the beginning, ship class choices were railroading us so if people saw a Galaxy they knew it was engineering, Intrepid was science, etc. Now we have the Odyssey which looks the same but can be used by all three classes.
There can no longer be "logical" Trek tech arguments anymore because Cryptic has been setting in-game precedence since closed beta.
I'm not sure what you're getting at.
It's always been possible to use ships of one type or another by all classes.
Besides, what's the alternative?
Shut off the brain and demand things that don't make any sense, like Ambassador should be the most maneuverable escort in this game?
We can't go by what the silent or quiet majority want... yet we have several in that vocal minority that are very outspoken. They appear in each thread, hammering away their points repeatedly - it's what stands out - it's what gains the attention...
...and to some extent, begins to lead to stereotyping of those that are pro-Ambassador.
Some folks try to see past that and deal with individuals that are pro-Ambassador on an individual or even small group basis.
At the same time, it also happens from the other perspective. Those that do not want exactly what this outspoken minority want are lumped in with the people that do not want the Ambassador at all. This is often picked up by others that may not have read a single thing the person said, but they saw the label, and it sticks.
Everything ends up in the extremes... people that are not at those extremes, will often find themselves in arguments with everybody, lol.
Person A is pro-Ambassador, but they are not PRO-Ambassador - so they'll end up as CON-Ambassador to those PRO-Ambassador folks. Person B is con-Ambassador, but they are not CON-Ambassador - so they'll end up as PRO-Ambassador to those CON-Ambassador folks. Even some of the pro folks are not pro enough, so they'll end up con or CON to those that are more pro or PRO..
The Ambassador-class is a minefield. I honestly do not think JJz realized what he was walking into when he commented...
...with his interaction though, what is he going to walk away with? Is he going to realize that it was really only a few very vocal folks that were ready to lynch him and that the majority of folks were just doing our typical middle of the road discussion? Even if he does realize that on an intellectual level, tries to maintain a professional attitude, etc, etc... he's still human.
It's very easy to end up despising users and not wanting to have anything to do with them...lol. Give me a room full of servers and a boss to filter the users...ayup...
Certainly an excellent post, but totally besides the point I actually wanted to make.
I wasn't talking about the silent majority.
I have no idea what the silent majority wants (maybe they want the ship to go to the dumpster, or perhaps as an NPC freighter?) and thus would never presume to articulate that I know what they want.
I was talking about the majority of those who I have been reading about speaking positively about the idea of an Ambassador in this game.
And of this majority has IMO very different ideas what that ship might be like, but the constant based on my observation has been none of those people wanted seom kind of "more dakka-dakka pwnship" but something that's actually balanced.
And yes I agree with you those that sceam the loudest (and the loudest pile of nonsense) will sometimes be the ones we should thank for destroying an idea.
Unfortunately those people hide behind the anonymity of the internet so we can never confront them and ask them what they were thinking and how much damage they might do.