Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 121
03-22-2012, 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanix1986
They get income from Gold players that aren't lifers, the ads themselves from the F2P players, and from the C-Store. The game is set up for them to make a profit, which lets face it; should they not be making money off this game? If I were running it, I would want to make money or else I'd just shut it down.

Now, piwright42; if you want to boycott the C-Store, go straight ahead. If they lower the prices great for everyone. Still, stuff like this doesn't help your cause. Alienating other players is just bad form. Saying a guy doesn't play PvP so what does he know. Let me tell you something; I do play PvP on occasion and I run it perfectly fine in my MVAE without using Multi-Vector. You said that was the only difference right. A good player can do well in the ships you get at the RALH level if they set them up right. I can move all my MKXII weapons and what not over to the Advanced Escort and do just fine in STFs and PvP.

You want to boycott, go for it, but stop attacking and discrediting people who don't agree with you because it just makes you look like a complete tool. You see, I could sit here and say that PvPers are a bunch of babies that try to get the game to bend to their advantage by complaining instead of going out and putting in the hardwork that other players do. You are the same babies that complained about the Tetryon Gliders being too powerful and it wasn't fair; when you could have all sucked it up, run STFs, and gotten them yourselves; but you were all too lazy to do it so you complained and got your way. Now when I run STFs, it takes me longer to do them all because you were a bunch of pathetic babies who called the Tetryon Glider, something you earned in game by getting the Omega Force Set and is COMPLETELY FREE, unfair.

You see, that makes me a tool because I attacked you without even knowing you. For all I know, you never complained about the Tetryon Glider. I just took out all my frustration on you for no apparent reason. That makes me a tool; but so be it, because you sir are a bigger tool then I could ever be and I can live with that. Peace Out!
So much vehemence that I would like to clarify a couple more things.

Pointing out the weak spot in logic is not discrediting. It simply is illuminating a point that does not support the whole weight of the statement. When I said that poster did not PvP I was actually pointing out that what works for them does not work for everyone. Forgive me for not thinking that a minimalist statement could be interpreted as an assault of the character of another player. I forgot that many folks need things spelled out in no uncertain terms.

Wow Talk about the bra calling the panties pink. So wait because I PvP and PvPers got some exploit you enjoyed "nerfed" we're a bunch of "babies." Makes me chuckle when you spent so much time ranting about how I discredit, alienate and disenfranchise another player/poster only to go on to do that to an entire subgroup of players yourself?

Let us ruminate on that "nerf" just a little. There are two factions in this game. There are many different ship gear sets some specific to each faction. Why is it a good thing if the Omega kit makes all the other kits obsolete? Did not other players put time and effort into getting these other kits in game? Would they not want to use these kits that they put near as much, if not just as much in the case of MACO and KHG, effort into getting as those who were wise enough to go straight for the Omega kit? For that matter why would PvPers care? We all know they are nothing more than min/maxers who care for nothing more than the size of their e-peens and only want to identify an edge and exploit it, why would they care to announce an exploit?

I hate typing in another color, so I will say the rest of my peace like this.

The truth is that most PvPers really do care for more than themselves. They are not about their e-peens and are more about the challenge and the best challenge is not the AI that comes from PvE. How do you know that PvPers care? When they find an exploit instead of hording it they announce it so the item can get a balance pass. Wait that is not hoarding it to themselves so they can hit their key bound "LOLZ n00b L2P ROFLCoppter" in zone chat more often. In fact when they report a thing like Tetryon Glider as being out of balance, and the Devs acknowledge it, what happens is the other kits that other players put time and effort into getting become more viable again. Also as a side benefit the challenge of STFs goes back up where it belongs and you spend less time waiting for the STFs you blazed though in thirty minutes, because your Tetryon Glider is too strong, to come off cooldown. Which is more like providing a public service than bawling that game life is unfair.

Food for thought..

I am not boycotting the C-Store. I am boycotting the price of the Odyssey and Bortasqu. I know it will get me nowhere, it never has gotten me anywhere in that past. I mean there was that brief time in F2P test that we got ship prices down but then they brought the ship prices right back up when F2P launched. Not like abstaining from buying something works at all though. I mean if I do not buy it why would they put it on sale?

So the next time you see a clearance sale for a furniture store on TV know that is what was not selling as good and what they want to get rid of to make room for what should sell better. It is a kind of backhanded acknowledgement of what the market has the actual will to bear. Same is true of the price of snow jackets in the summer, you know when you do not need a jacket at all.

Abstinence: It controls more than just babies.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 122
03-22-2012, 12:17 AM
This game is F2P, I play a couple of F2P games and I am used to the store prices on each. Ultimately you don't actually have to spend money to play this game. This is the only game I've seen where you have the ability to earn items from the store and not actually have to pay for them.

Me personally I don't mind the prices as Cryptic needs the money for development of the game, staff wages and to cover costs.

My total for this month on things I've bought from the store is 110.

And as long as they keep releasing things I want I will keep spending my money on things I want.

So well done Cryptic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 123
03-22-2012, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrinkaas
There's two ways to look at this: in terms of the price of the transaction, or the relative worth of the transaction within the microeconomy of STO.

For the price (in real-world terms), $25/$50 dollars will be costly for some, and very little to others. The rules of supply and demand apply in virtual business same as everything else: a lower price will usually result in higher sales (especially as there is no accompanying cost for production/delivery with each transaction), but there is a limit. Not having access to Cryptic/PWE's accounts, it's difficult to say where the cut-off point would be. It's not impossible that we're already at it with the current prices: STO needs a guaranteed source of income, or else, ultimately there is no flying around in free ships or premium ships for any of us. They also need to generate a profit - they're a business with shareholders.

From the other perspective, there's the relative worth. Again, opinions are king, but in essence when looking at a product you are paying $25 for a ship, or $50 for three; in terms of monthly stipend (assuming no dilithium grinding or top-ups) that's five months or ten months respectively. That seems a bit high, by my estimation. Sure there are similar play-to-win models out there, but I consider what I get for a month's stipend in LotRO (an MMO which seems to be going from strength to strength) - roughly the same real-world cost - and it's not exactly great. A new area in LotRO is about 2 months worth of stipends - and a full expansion would be closer to the five-ten month range (depending on whether one wanted access to raids etc.). Both have the option to grind out points for "free".

That's really my problem: the prices are for a single piece of glorified equipment and cosmetics - for a substantial amount of months-worth of stipend. Now I can do this in other MMOs too - including LotRO on the cosmetic front. But the difference is that this is very much an "extra" in a store filled with comparably priced expansion content. I look through C-Store, and the biggest purchases are ships. There's very little material by comparison - the amount of non-space explorable terrain is really rather small - and one of the two factions isn't even fleshed out. I also love STO, and have been happy to trial a subscription - but at this rate, I can't see me keeping it up. It's not so much the real-world price (though I agree, $25 for electronic goods is not a microtransaction), but the relative price. It's not that I object to the C-Store selling vanity ships and tiered vessels, it's that beyond the expected service payments and cosmetics, that's all there is to use my C-points for.

My subscription to LotRO gets me new content - my subscription to STO gets me a few new ships to play largely the same game. Cute, but I know which one I'll stick with paying money with long-term.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwarlord
For the same price of 4000 C-Points you can buy 5 uni-consoles that are interchangeable with other ships versus the 3 that are only useable within the 3 types of Odyssey-C Not worth it even with the 3 set passive buff.

I would say what a stupid move by Cryptic/PWE but then again people are buying it for some reason... That and as stated in the above posts the lockboxes being a success, its hard to say they are heading in the wrong direction.

I just hope they don't turn this game into the "pay to win" stereotype
Thank for sharing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinru821 View Post
Hahaha hey I wish they did give me some!, but I understand where you're coming from. I am fully aware that if something happens they will be gone forever... but I don't care! I'm having fun!

Not everyone is going to want to spend money on virtual stuff, but hey I am the type who does!. I buy xbox points, did the facebook/farmville stuff when I found it entertaining, and now C-points! I wish they would add some awesome ground weapons, other than those cruddy melee. I like the bajoran weapons for their uniqueness, they aren't even anymore powerful than standard XI blue weps.

Basically the C-store isn't going to be used by everyone, it is geared towards the people with disposable income that either enjoy, customization, a slight edge, or just an easier way to obtain in-game or unique items... like me!!!!!!!!!!!! ( ive probably spent an easy $500 on c points since I started playing almost 500 days ago, and I only regret the lockbox purchases)
Thanks for sharing your view point. It is one way to look at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockMax View Post
First of all, I have to say I'm in agreement with wmcarson.

Secondly, the argument of shelling out money for a virtual item being a rip off or just not worth it, such is the way our entertainment is headed. As technology evolves, the music industry and Hollywood will probably switch over to entirely virtual ownership of their goods. How much money do you spend on smart phone apps, music, and movies and even video games?

I do understand the desire to physically own something rather than a bunch of 1's and 0's. I'm a movie collector, I have over 200 blurays, not counting DVDs. I cringe that the thought of one day physical media being overtaken by virtual media.

But in this case, I don't think that argument truly 100% applies. Paying $20 or more for an item in the C-Store doesn't just pay for that item. You're paying the company to pay it's employees, when you consider all the work they have to do, not just in content creation but maintaining the game. They don't have the staff Blizzard has on WOW. I don't have access to their tax records and their market share, but I would bet that the profit from the C-Store is probably barely covering their expenses.

I'm not saying at all that if you can't afford C-Store items then you don't deserve to play, last thing I want is for people to stop playing STO because they feel they can't afford it. And yes, I could stand that some things in the C-Store be cheaper, but if they don't I won't cry over it. And boycotting the game won't solve anything, you'd have to get at least 2,000,000 people to stop playing to achieve anything, and I doubt that would happen. Besides, if there's something on the C-Store you want, Cryptic does do holiday sales, wait patiently till then then go nuts with your stipends that you save.

For now, I think the prices are fine. Nobody is forcing you to buy from the C-Store, and not buying from it doesn't mean you can't enjoy playing the game. But it does enhance it, and for that I am willing to pay for it.

Post getting long, I'll stop now.
They have had holiday sales, but not since F2P. They may in the future, but no telling how soon one will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tosmonkey
Look, I won't be buying any $50 virtual space ships, but I won't be joining you in a boycott either. If you don't think a C store item is worth the price, don't buy it. You know that they'll just come out with an even better ship next year, anyway, right? That's how the F2P model works. But I like this game. I'm not going to torpedo their only source of revenue because I don't like the prices of their optional items. That's called biting off your nose to spite your face.
The do have advertising in game and some do still subscribe so C-Store is not their only source of income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursix
If the F2P system was setup right, they would have a steady supply of income from gold while gaining a bit extra from the C-Store. Instead, they are chasing out the gold and relying exclusively on the C-Store.

Also that is an interesting point, how much income do they get from the ads and is it a steady supply?
It is true that the gold membership was not setup right. There is not much of an incentive to be one. I hope it does change it the future.

I am boycotting the C-Store because I choose to, but no one is being force or told they have to boycott. I would like foe more people to be involved in just make prices more reasonable so that more item will sell in the C-Store to help support the game.

Remember there is in game advertisement now to help support F2P.

Please stay on track of the topic and be respectful of one another.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 124
03-23-2012, 09:05 AM
From what I gathered from this thread so far, it seems the majority feel while the prices may be a tad high, they're willing to pay for C-Store items when they need to. Or that they just don't buy much from the store, but wouldn't boycott the game at all.

The Lock Box is a huge cash cow for Cryptic, I won't divulge how much I spent to get the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, but I hardly spent anything on the Galor ship, which I wasn't interested in getting at all. As for future lock box's, it really depends what the super ultra secret ship is, that determines if I want to get it or not. I wanted the Jem'Hadar ship, not the Galor ship.

CBS stated that they would allow Cryptic to continue doing odd ships like that since it takes so much to get them, they want them to be rare so as to not have a fleet of them when it should be Starfleet vessels, not J'H and Galor fleets.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 125
03-24-2012, 10:49 AM
I dont have a problem with the prices, most of them arevlow enough that i can just refine dilithium for them. I can easily pick up low tier ships this way including shuttles. I do feel a bit sorry for the people who paid 800 c-points for the starter ships when their now half that price. As long as plenty of much needed content is coming out, i'll happily buy their stuff.

That said, i'm a bit fed up with the recent lottery ****.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 126
03-24-2012, 10:53 AM
Put the Jemmy Escort into the C-Store for 1500-2000 and give it a really nice console, and i'll fetch my wallet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 127
03-24-2012, 11:31 AM
I'm mostly fine with the pricing on ships, inv slots, and most things, but captain respecs are unacceptable at 400CP. Some people like testing different builds, and they may not have tribble server access.
Skills give a huge boost, if someone wants to try out a drain build for example it's impossible without speccing first into flow capacitors. One might also want to respec after getting a new ship, that's another 20% points over the ship's 2k price.
A realistic price for respec would be somewhere around 100,000-500,000 EC or maybe a few thousand dilithium.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 128 Ship Costs
03-24-2012, 10:26 PM
So I've been eyeing those new Odyssey class ships, you know, the upgrades to the incomplete one they gave away for free, and I was about to dish out some money to buy one when I looked at the prices. Its 2000 c-points for one. If you want all three its luckily only 4000 c-points but that's $50.
With $50 I could buy a whole newly released game (or a couple not as new). That price is ridiculous. The cost of a big release for 3 virtual starships. I know this is F2P and they need to earn money to keep it going (I won't chime in on the conversations about ad's and gold members' profits) but seriously, if they'd lower their prices they'd get a lot more people buying which very likely would increase their income. 3 people paying $50 doesn't come close to 8 people paying $10. Just saying.

So personally I'm for this boycott until the prices start making a logical sense. No you shouldn't be able to buy your way to a win, but you shouldn't have to pay so much just to get some of these ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 129
03-25-2012, 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenjackal
So I've been eyeing those new Odyssey class ships, you know, the upgrades to the incomplete one they gave away for free, and I was about to dish out some money to buy one when I looked at the prices. Its 2000 c-points for one. If you want all three its luckily only 4000 c-points but that's $50.
With $50 I could buy a whole newly released game (or a couple not as new). That price is ridiculous. The cost of a big release for 3 virtual starships. I know this is F2P and they need to earn money to keep it going (I won't chime in on the conversations about ad's and gold members' profits) but seriously, if they'd lower their prices they'd get a lot more people buying which very likely would increase their income. 3 people paying $50 doesn't come close to 8 people paying $10. Just saying.

So personally I'm for this boycott until the prices start making a logical sense. No you shouldn't be able to buy your way to a win, but you shouldn't have to pay so much just to get some of these ships.

3 times 50 is 150
8 times 10in is 80


But the spirit of your post is true. If it was 3000a points for 1the ship and 2 consoles I think a majority of the people that wouldnt pay might pay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 130
03-26-2012, 09:50 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~PWE_BranFlakes

Sorry all, this thread is going WAY downhill, and fast. /closed ~BranFlakes
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