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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
04-09-2012, 10:03 AM
Moving enables you to survive tankin even on elite STF for a while, with the expection of the lethal stuff they fire at you (like the heavy plasma torpedo, or that scattering beam or what wich has no animation for me , invisible beam of death XD) cos that prety much 1 hits you, or takes you down to like 5% hp and 0 shield facing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
04-09-2012, 10:06 AM
You guys realize that you receive a negative modifier while stopped right? The game's been like that since launch. Stopping will get you killed far too easily. Trudge along at 25% and fly in circles if you have to, but don't stop in combat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
04-09-2012, 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandoKnight View Post
You can safely park ~9 km from the gates, though. The gate's weapon ranges seem to be measured from the top bar, but its hit ranges are measured across the entire thing, so there are areas where you can fire at the gate and it can't fire at you.

It's also large enough that there's angles where you can fire both aft beams and fore torpedoes, making bombardment a rather attractive option.
There is one thing, one thing in the game you can park and shoot for. It does not make it an award winning strategy.

Heck there is a spot 2.25 to 1.75k under the gate where you can get it in all firing arc, I sure wouldn't recommend that as a great way to tank a cube.
Two things. You can park outside of the "nasty" arcs of Cubes too.

Donata's ESTF Scatter-Death-Beam, Cubes and Gates are about the only things that make you try a bit harder than normal to survive in PVE at endgame. Of those three, only Donata is better tanked by a maneuverable ship, as she can move and turn a lot more quickly than a cube.

In theory Cruisers would be able to take advantage of "defence tanking" quite well, since they tend to build for Broadsides (which means they could keep a steady stream of sustained DPS on the thing they're tanking whilst orbiting around it at a distance at high speed, unlike ships built with a narrower firing arc) but unfortunately that has a negative impact on tanking as well... whilst an enemy tanked from a longer distance away would be hitting you for less damage due to energy weapon damage dropoff over range, you'd also inflict less damage on that enemy. Certainly you'd do less damage than than someone else who'd just parked next to an enemy and stayed out of their heavy weapon arcs... and since the person doing the most damage tends to get the hate, trying to "tank" in that situation would be futile.

Cruisers really need better means to keep hate... perhaps the damage resistance engineering armor consoles could be tweaked to grant a buff to "Starship Threat Control"? (a skill which, in my opinion, could do with both a slight buff and another look over - if it reduced hate when you're flying an escort and increased it when you're flying a cruiser it''d be FAR more useful than it is currently...)

I suppose I can dream...

-------------

On "Tanking":

After a lot of testing I've found I can reliably "tank" (as-in "keep hate and survive") an elite STF Cube equally well on my Odyssey and my Fleet Escort (it's trickier to survive with the Escort but easier to keep hate), and I can certainly survive Donata more easily using the Escort. Gates don't matter as they never hit you if you position yourself right. The only time, in fact, that I've found my Odyssey to be "better" than my Escort at current PVE endgame is when I'm defending the Kang... and that's less to do with me actually tanking and more to do with me being able to spam higher level heals on the Kang and use [Gravity Well + Tractor Beam Repulsors] on incoming ships if the situation calls for it.

I can keep *other* ships alive a lot better with my Cruiser though. Two Cruisers that can use their heals on each other properly are VERY tough - but sadly theres nothing in the game that currently needs that level of tankability. Plus such a setup would find it hard to kill something in a reasonably short time. And probably still find it difficult to keep hate...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-09-2012, 08:03 PM
Many people, like me, park at .5km or less in front of a Cube in STF's not for tanking purposes, although I can keep my shields and hull up long enough to take a couple of plasma torps, but because Cubes do massive dmg to themselves when a Borg Plasma Torp detonates on a target within 1km.

This is extremely useful when you're trying to complete the timed optional in Elite.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
04-09-2012, 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelwys
Two things. You can park outside of the "nasty" arcs of Cubes too.

Donata's ESTF Scatter-Death-Beam, Cubes and Gates are about the only things that make you try a bit harder than normal to survive in PVE at endgame. Of those three, only Donata is better tanked by a maneuverable ship, as she can move and turn a lot more quickly than a cube.
A Cruiser can tank Donatra by maneuvering around her the same way you would on an Escort.

The escort has natively better speed, but all Cruisers can take EWP to slow her down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
04-10-2012, 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkwrangler2010
I've been able to tank cubes by being above or below. I keep the engines at 1/4 impulse and slowly follow it around while bombarding it. As long as the other team members keep attacking it, it sort of ignores me.
If the cube ignores you and fires at other people, then you're not tanking it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-10-2012, 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joural
If the cube ignores you and fires at other people, then you're not tanking it.
Indeed that is oh so true.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
04-10-2012, 07:55 PM
-15% on defense, so believe. And it gets worse from the NPCs' wpn modifiers against stationary ships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
You guys realize that you receive a negative modifier while stopped right? The game's been like that since launch. Stopping will get you killed far too easily. Trudge along at 25% and fly in circles if you have to, but don't stop in combat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
04-10-2012, 11:51 PM
Yeah I've been tanking in STF for a while. Pretty much all I do these days

I can solo cubes in elite STFs some what easily in Odys and Marauder. If you cruiser just keeps moving your fine. In my Bortasqu with DHC's I have to face em, so just hit reverse which give about +10% defense instead of -3% or whatever for just sitting there. Only thing to worry about is that they can fly towards you faster than you can reverse hehe. But you can use abilities to buff/debuff that issue.

Donata I can tank, from energy weapons to full torp spread and survive. Sure you gotta run away from her scatter beam thing, but if I have the Barrier Field Generator slotted I can just deploy that in front of her and save everyone from being vaporized.
Seriously, sitting in here face as it lets rip and your still there shooting her in the face is a great feeling

Tac cube is tougher imo to tank by yourself, mainly due to the fact they don't run away like Donata. Can do it for a while but unless aggro changes you'll need to get out of range occasionally to let abilities cool down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
04-11-2012, 12:06 AM
My favourite 'tanking' style is to attract aggro then do some sort of S turn before the target at a decent range, to alternatively unmask fore and rear torpedo tubes.

This zigzagging historically does complicate firing solutions and in Star Trek lore, 'sweeping through phaser arcs' to alternatively unmask different armaments whist spreading damage across multiple shield facings is a desirable tactic.

So it does make sense that an actively maneuvering vessel would take less damage that one that sits under a cube and buffs itself in the hope it doesn't explode. That's the reason also why I felt that the cruiser build with injector assembly felt much more effective and took less damage than the other one with max armour, because the + engine power meant bonus defence.

But... in the current gameplay implementation it's quite easy to build a ship that can survive cube attacks while sitting stationary. For Normal STF that is.

If maneuvering or at least keeping the ship moving is free defence, then I see no reason why everyone shouldn't take advantage of it. After all, there is no practical sense to sit still and wait for plasma torpedoes to hit.
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