Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 351
04-14-2012, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vjachibg
If feds get carrier then kdf should get MVAM ships and saucer separation don't you think?
Of course it wouldn't be disbalance, but we will lose the unique gameplays from the different factions, so there will be no difference which faction you are - just the "blue" and "red" screen...nothing else...
the Ning'Tao looks like a "Vectorfit" posability

but realy I have at least 1 freind, that wants a Galaxy Class that she can seperate and pilot the SAUCER SECTION, instead of the section you are FORCED to be in now.

ALSO, if in the Odassy, you CAN"T use both the Secort AND Shevron at the same time, why can't you chose the ONE pice that was seperated as the ship you controll? (just add a "location of captian" on the ship equipment screen, where the player choses where there captian is in ship. have a choice for each bridge on ship, Odassy MVAE get's 3, and Galaxy gets 2.) (for all 3, if the bridge you are on, is for a section of ship, that hasn't "seperated" from the largest section of ship, then you controll the largest section "mostly a fix to if your captian is in the Oddassy Shevron, yet the Escort is launched, instead",)

AND the Oddassy should be ablre to both pices seperated at the same time, simply change "crew capasaty locked at X" to crew capasity reduced by Z, till the section/escort returns" that way if 1 is lanched , it's a small crew reduction, like now, and if both launched, a larger crew reduction

there is so much to be don'e with the current "Fed trademark ships" that wasteing time on a Fed Carrier that will not be as effective, since it's not allowed to be as strong as a KDF carrier.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 352
04-14-2012, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyres-of-BSGO View Post
the Ning'Tao looks like a "Vectorfit" posability
Multi-Vector is pretty crazy as it gives at least a +5 turn rate to a 15 turn rate ship, adding it to a Bird-of-Prey that are known from the high turn rate, adding it to a 22 rate ship is just insane, also you lose hull so you want to fly a section that have even less hull that a B'rel?

Bad idea.

Quote:
but realy I have at least 1 freind, that wants a Galaxy Class that she can seperate and pilot the SAUCER SECTION, instead of the section you are FORCED to be in now.
Well maybe we are forced but ... why? the Saucer section is not combat worth, that is the Stardrive section ... putting the real firepower of the ship on the hands of the AI is a plain bad idea.

Quote:
ALSO, if in the Odassy, you CAN"T use both the Secort AND Shevron at the same time, why can't you chose the ONE pice that was seperated as the ship you controll? <snip>
Because, and I am not joking here, it would "take away from the M/VAE" ... we know its possible to separate because people managed to do so by separating, log off, log in, separate the other section.

Also as much I would understand being forced to pick Stardrive or Aux Craft, we dont even get the chance to pick the Aquarius ... the only thing that make the Odyssey not as bad as the Bortas was the turn rate, every part of the Bortas can work with the others as with the Odyssey at best you can have 2 of your unique abilities out ... just so it does not "take away from the M/VAE".

Quote:
there is so much to be don'e with the current "Fed trademark ships" that wasteing time on a Fed Carrier that will not be as effective, since it's not allowed to be as strong as a KDF carrier.
Oh, the only people that do not "allow" it is a certain segment of the forums, as they know its going to happen they are trying to rile up the Klingon players to torpedo it.

Besides there is really not that much that can be done, in fact its the KDF that needs more hybrids ships as its losing out at higher tier, a Fed Carrier would be just a unusual ship on the sea of Fed Cruisers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 353
04-14-2012, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron
Multi-Vector is pretty crazy as it gives at least a +5 turn rate to a 15 turn rate ship, adding it to a Bird-of-Prey that are known from the high turn rate, adding it to a 22 rate ship is just insane, also you lose hull so you want to fly a section that have even less hull that a B'rel?

Bad idea.



Well maybe we are forced but ... why? the Saucer section is not combat worth, that is the Stardrive section ... putting the real firepower of the ship on the hands of the AI is a plain bad idea.



Because, and I am not joking here, it would "take away from the M/VAE" ... we know its possible to separate because people managed to do so by separating, log off, log in, separate the other section.

Also as much I would understand being forced to pick Stardrive or Aux Craft, we dont even get the chance to pick the Aquarius ... the only thing that make the Odyssey not as bad as the Bortas was the turn rate, every part of the Bortas can work with the others as with the Odyssey at best you can have 2 of your unique abilities out ... just so it does not "take away from the M/VAE".



Oh, the only people that do not "allow" it is a certain segment of the forums, as they know its going to happen they are trying to rile up the Klingon players to torpedo it.

Besides there is really not that much that can be done, in fact its the KDF that needs more hybrids ships as its losing out at higher tier, a Fed Carrier would be just a unusual ship on the sea of Fed Cruisers.
so instead it "takes away from th Galaxy" it's a "hybrid" Galaxy/Carrier, it can eather do the galaxy thing, or launch 1 large Escort... hmm does that mean the Odassy is ALREADY THE FED CARRIER???

about choseing the smaller ship/part, of a seperated ship:

higher hp= higher treat for a char/player that runs a LOW THREAT playstyle, being the largest target there is NOT GOOD. (with my sudgestion, the player could CHOSE, the largest HP pice as their main "and set as defalt captian location, untill player changes it from defalt" and a player that plays as LOW THREAT, can chose a smaller HP pice, so that the enemy will? focus fire on the AI pice instead.

yes, it's less "combat capable" but the ability to move into position while the target is distracted is a major benifit to "combat capability" (Fed players SHOULD know this by now, the low hp and -25% weapon slots of a BoP compaired to a cruser/Escort, is countered by it's ability to "get in position to attack in the most effective way" (not to mention in PvP if the enemy saw your Galaxy, seperate, it wouldn't INSTANTLY KNOW, that you was in the biggest pice. (because you just might not be in the biggest blasted pice after all. (same with if a BoP had a Vectorfit, yes they would be really low hp... but wich one is the captian in? (depending on the pice the captain is is is it's"ships" base stats so if it was in a smaller pice it would have lower hp, but also harder to target, and higher turn rate)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 354
04-14-2012, 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
6 Types of ships? How do you figure that?

Raptor vs Escort
Battle Cruiser vs Cruiser
Carrier vs Sci Vessel
BoP vs Nothing
Orion Flight Deck Cruisers, oh wait that's a Cruiser.
Gorn ships? Nope those are Science like the Carrier.
Garumba? Well it's a Fleet Escort but cooler.
Kar'Fi? Well that's a Carrier and those are Science.

As for Numbers: KDF vs Fed
Escorts 4 vs 4
Cruisers 3 vs 5
Science 3 vs 5
BoP 1 vs 0

Totals 11 vs 14

Shuttles
3 vs 9
You'd think they would give us at least one single shuttle design... Perhap they realise we don't want to collect them all.



Your forgetting the Garumba, and that's an Escort so it's actually 4 vs 4 there.
Feds have Cruisers, Escorts, and Sci at each rank. Now, granted, at commander they have the Nebula which plays a bit different than the Ballship.

At Commander and Captain levels, for Escort type ships, the KDF has the Naussican ship, which plays differently than the Raptor, which plays differently than the BoP. For cruisers, they have the Battlecruiser which plays differently than the Orion Flight Decks. For Sci, they have the Gorn ships. So, while the Feds have one choice for each type of vessel, the KDF are limited to only one choice for Sci. For the other ship types, there are multiple choices depending on how you like to play.

The Feds get 3 choices (maybe 4 at Cm with the Nebula) at Commander and Captain, the KDF get 6.

At RA and VA, the KDF have carriers, which while they may be Sci heavy, are *not* Sci vessels, no matter how much you want to believe that. (And as was pointed out, if you *do* believe that, then why be bothered about the Feds getting a carrier?) I have yet to see any Federation Sci vessel with hangars, or that can summon loads of non-holographic or non item pets (for example the Reman fighters, which KDF also have access to).

I do think the KDF needs more RA/VA ships. They also need *free* ships. But, the KDF has a much greater *variety* of ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 355
04-14-2012, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyres-of-BSGO View Post
so instead it "takes away from th Galaxy" it's a "hybrid" Galaxy/Carrier, it can eather do the galaxy thing, or launch 1 large Escort... hmm does that mean the Odassy is ALREADY THE FED CARRIER???
What you want me to say?

I pointed out that one should not at the same time say the M/VAE is a sacred cow and then say its fine to take away from the Galaxy, mind you this was said at the same time it was shown the Galaxy-X getting separation, that is even worst.

Also the Odyssey can function as a carrier in the sense you can launch a pet but you have no control over it at all, even its not utter useless its still very situational due to AI and explosions (lets let using it on a STF is more likely to do more harm that good).

Quote:
about choseing the smaller ship/part, of a seperated ship:
Well I am not really going to argue about this but ...

Quote:
higher hp= higher treat for a char/player that runs a LOW THREAT playstyle, being the largest target there is NOT GOOD. (with my sudgestion, the player could CHOSE, the largest HP pice as their main "and set as defalt captian location, untill player changes it from defalt" and a player that plays as LOW THREAT, can chose a smaller HP pice, so that the enemy will? focus fire on the AI pice instead.
Now the problem is this, the section loses the powers you have ... that is, if you separate and take the Saucer section that means the Stardrive would get no abilities on their own, unless they gave it so the Stardrive would get perhaps Beam Overload and Torpedo Spread but that would be it.

That means your Saucer could only do one thing ... heal support because it only have 2 beams arrays, the problem with your Low Threat is you cease to be one the moment the Stardrive is destroyed.

Quote:
yes, it's less "combat capable" but the ability to move into position while the target is distracted is a major benifit to "combat capability" (Fed players SHOULD know this by now, the low hp and -25% weapon slots of a BoP compaired to a cruser/Escort, is countered by it's ability to "get in position to attack in the most effective way" (not to mention in PvP if the enemy saw your Galaxy, seperate, it wouldn't INSTANTLY KNOW, that you was in the biggest pice. (because you just might not be in the biggest blasted pice after all. (same with if a BoP had a Vectorfit, yes they would be really low hp... but wich one is the captian in? (depending on the pice the captain is is is it's"ships" base stats so if it was in a smaller pice it would have lower hp, but also harder to target, and higher turn rate)
OK problem is this ... support sucks in this game and science skills get nerfed every time they touch them.

Also you are not a BoP ... the BoP ability to move to position is because its Cloaked and the enemy is unaware, even if the Stardrive could distract for a while, the moment the player notices the Saucer doing something it shouldn't its the moment he would target the Saucer section as as support that means he would catch that on pretty fast due to how power works.

I admit, there would be a novelty of playing as a support instead of DPS but you cannot really do this because the UI does not really allow you to do this, I tried with the Odyssey work like that but I lose tract of the Aquarius and have to manually target it in order to heal it, its just far to difficult to work like that because of the UI not really working for Pets.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 356
04-14-2012, 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron
What you want me to say?

I pointed out that one should not at the same time say the M/VAE is a sacred cow and then say its fine to take away from the Galaxy, mind you this was said at the same time it was shown the Galaxy-X getting separation, that is even worst.

Also the Odyssey can function as a carrier in the sense you can launch a pet but you have no control over it at all, even its not utter useless its still very situational due to AI and explosions (lets let using it on a STF is more likely to do more harm that good).



Well I am not really going to argue about this but ...



Now the problem is this, the section loses the powers you have ... that is, if you separate and take the Saucer section that means the Stardrive would get no abilities on their own, unless they gave it so the Stardrive would get perhaps Beam Overload and Torpedo Spread but that would be it.

That means your Saucer could only do one thing ... heal support because it only have 2 beams arrays, the problem with your Low Threat is you cease to be one the moment the Stardrive is destroyed.



OK problem is this ... support sucks in this game and science skills get nerfed every time they touch them.

Also you are not a BoP ... the BoP ability to move to position is because its Cloaked and the enemy is unaware, even if the Stardrive could distract for a while, the moment the player notices the Saucer doing something it shouldn't its the moment he would target the Saucer section as as support that means he would catch that on pretty fast due to how power works.

I admit, there would be a novelty of playing as a support instead of DPS but you cannot really do this because the UI does not really allow you to do this, I tried with the Odyssey work like that but I lose tract of the Aquarius and have to manually target it in order to heal it, its just far to difficult to work like that because of the UI not really working for Pets.
you meen to tell me the Multi-Vector DOESN"T already have a "chose the pice your captian is in" funtion? and that no mater what section you are in, you don't have full controll?... hmm interesting, I was under the impresion that you was in control of any of the 3 parts you chose (depending on which "vector controll skill" you used... *smiles* 3 of them, and 3 pices, the pice you in being the hp/turn/power multiples of... THAT PICE!!!)

I must have been wrong *kicks a rock*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 357
04-14-2012, 11:06 PM
You can pick the section when you separate but no control over the other 2 sections that also have their own abilities when separated, if you want to change sections you have to join and separate again.

Problem with Carriers is Pet AI, the M/VAE lacks controls over the sections making it something you only do under certain circumstances, unlike Carriers were the pets are or should be the main means of attack and so a degree of control is required.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 358
04-15-2012, 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermbot View Post
So if the Caitian thing is a flight deck cruiser you won't complain? Good to know.

Well, it's definitely a carrier. So wait, to you "carriers" are "science vessels." So, by your standards the Federation isn't getting anything new at all by adding a carrier. If it's a single hangar carrier than, by your standards, it's a cruiser, and if it's a two hangar carrier than it's a science vessel, both things they've had since day one.

I disagree with you, but, imho, if more people agreed with you we'd have alot less drama on this forum!
As much as I can see the other KDF players laughing their butts off if the Feds got a Flight Deck Cruiser with a low turn rate. The Feds would be outraged. Most of them are expecting an unbeatable monster here. There where people complaining the Odyssey couldn't park in front of a Gate or Cube and unload without getting killed on Elite of all things. You can almost write the complaints they'll make about it being a mortal vessel now.

So let's try this again shall we, I believe "Orion Flight Deck Cruisers" to be Cruisers for the following reasons.

Weapons Layout of a Cruiser 4/4
BOFF and Console Layout of a Cruiser, Engineering focus.
Power Bonuses of a Cruiser.
Turn Rate of a Cruiser.
It's actually called a Flight Deck Cruiser
Can't mount DHC's like a Federation Cruiser. But since everything Klingon can, moot point.

They do have a Hanger, and that is not standard on a Cruiser. Infact it's a very interesting way to give you the P2W console without taking a Console Slot. They could have locked down the Hanger Toy into being a Console and have all the other Consoles on the Orion FDC's share a cooldown, but they decided to go with the Hanger, let's you get a chance to play a Low Level Carrier.

Take a moment, I'm going to start on why Carriers are Science Ships

Right so let's go, why Carriers are Science Ships.

Weapons the Layout of a Science Vessel 3/3.
A Unique but Sci Heavy 4 BOFF Layout.
A Science Vessel Console layout.
Subsystem Targeting.
They have a Shield Bonus.

OK they have more crew and more Hull than other Science Ships, they also don't have the same Power Bonus or Turn Rate as is common to the Science Ships. it doesn't even get Sensor Analysis but for a long time it was a choice between a Sci Focused BoP or the Carrier to be a Science focused Member of KDF. It is a relatively unique ship in the game, with nothing else remotely like it. But it's still got a Science Focus and that makes it a Klingon style Science Vessel with as much offense as they can put on it.

I do understand why most people don't think of it as a Science Vessel, I totally get that. But at the end of the day Klingons got two choices for Escorts(BoP, Raptor), two choices for Cruisers(Negh'Var, Vo'Quv) and two choices for Science Vessels(BoP, Vo'Quv). Notice how there's a lot of overlap? Consider the Feds got two of each ship off the bat. This was the design philosophy at launch and while much has changed I still think that the Carrier is meant to be a Science Vessel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermbot View Post
I think you counted one of the BoP's twice. As, lumping both BoP's into the escort category gets me up to 4 escorts. That would make the total difference 10 to 14. Personally, given that the KDF represents 18% of the population, I think a 2:3 ratio is the best we can hope for in terms of option parity.
Yeah I totally screwed up my maths. Not sure how, but to fix my mistake here.

Revised Numbers
As for Numbers: KDF vs Fed
Escorts 2 vs 4
Cruisers 3 vs 5
Science 3 vs 5
BoP 2 vs 0

Totals 10 vs 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermbot View Post
Well, that's far more dramatic, I demand the introduction of atleast 3 additional KDF themed shuttles..
I was more joking about that, but come on can't we have at least one more token shuttle? I'm thinking I want a tiny BoP like ship but with normal cloak and 2 BOFF stations (to be like the Delta Flyer) the special ability can be Cloaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyres-of-BSGO View Post
there is so much to be don'e with the current "Fed trademark ships" that wasteing time on a Fed Carrier that will not be as effective, since it's not allowed to be as strong as a KDF carrier.
Who said anything about it not being a powerful ship? I don't want it to be gimped, I don't want it to be a copy of one of our ships and I don't want it to be an overpowered behemoth.

Not sure who wrote this but to address the point of the Federation getting ships at levels we simply don't even have is fruitless argument. I'm limiting myself to Tier 5 for this discussion. Would I like to see more member choices for the Federation?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 359
04-18-2012, 07:29 AM
The best part is once they have a carrier and realize it's not an I win button, the federation players will then start pushing for a romulan faction hard so they don't have to fight us anymore.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 360
04-18-2012, 12:13 PM
I have enough character slots for about five PvP Romies just waiting for that day. Of late even when the Feddies hand me my rear my damage and heals are for the most part better than theirs.
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