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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
04-24-2012, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginaMala View Post
Its easier to program one-hit kills than an AI capable of engaging 5 opponents at once. Not sure if this counts as Fake Difficulty though, or just The Computer Is A Cheating *******. Still, I doubt its something that will ever be removed though, as otherwise the only challenge in STFs is keeping your team coordinated.

Edit:
Hmm, won't let me link to a web page if the page url contains a word killed by the profanity filter. Well, replace the asterisks with a boy born out of wedlock and it works.
it is fake difficulty because cryptic cannot program anything as sophisticated as a human brain, which is why I prefer PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
04-24-2012, 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
Still being one-shot killed, through full shields and hull.
You'll note that cryptic only mentioned "borg" in the release notes and while the negh'var is technically borg, the logic for the klingon ship was/is probably in a different section of the source code that they didn't address, hence why one shot kills still occur with them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
04-24-2012, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krenlik View Post
No, my point is that he THINKS his hull resist is that high... it's possible that occasionally wierd values get used instead of the proper one, etc.
If the numbers in the OP are from the combat log then he isn't just claiming to be mitigating more than half the damage received, he is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TF Omega
You'll note that cryptic only mentioned "borg" in the release notes and while the negh'var is technically borg, the logic for the klingon ship was/is probably in a different section of the source code that they didn't address, hence why one shot kills still occur with them.
I'm fairly sure the Negh'vars are Borg NPC's. If you're in a bad PuG that doesn't destroy them quickly they start using abilities that the KDF Negh'var doesn't have access to such as a cutting beam as well as the Plasma weapons. I'd imagine they have very little in common with the Klingon NPC.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-24-2012, 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krenlik View Post
According to the devs only high yield shootable torps from tactical cubes should be able to get anywhere close to that... not normal torpedos from these other ships. That indicates that something screwy is going on in their calculations, not that torpedos are too strong.... since, as you note, they'd never create a torpedo that strong deliberately.
At this point, the devs are standing on a stage proclaiming these insta-kills don't happen/are fixed while the killer torpedo is dancing around that same stage with bells on waving a sign that says "I kill people".

This Baghdad Bob behavior demonstrates that the dev team is either in denial or lying to the playerbase, and nothing good can come of either.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
04-24-2012, 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Militis View Post
If the numbers in the OP are from the combat log then he isn't just claiming to be mitigating more than half the damage received, he is.



I'm fairly sure the Negh'vars are Borg NPC's. If you're in a bad PuG that doesn't destroy them quickly they start using abilities that the KDF Negh'var doesn't have access to such as a cutting beam as well as the Plasma weapons. I'd imagine they have very little in common with the Klingon NPC.
If you understood programming, you'd know that a different object with a different skin is a separate instantiation of an object. While it is true that such an object could share the same base code (i.e. call a borg cube but use the Negh'var skin) it is also just as possible that they streamlined the code to reuse the same method to create the object with varying parameters. For example:
Call CreateShip(skin, base damage multiplier, base defense, base speed)....and whatever parameters could be called. So in the code they would have to use this method two times to call both a borg neghvar and a borg cube and perhaps only 1 of them was changed.

Call CreateShip(borgcube.skin, 5, 5, 2)

Call CreateShip(neghvar.skin, 10, 10, 5)

So you can see why a borg cube could have been fixed while the neghvar remained untouched. It is easy to miss another line of code somewhere, but this will still pass QA because they both still work even though one of them is still stronger than the other.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
04-24-2012, 03:33 PM
But as you mentioned they said Borg rather than Cube, Tactical Cube or Sphere so if then it's safe to assume (assumptions are bad, I know) they meant all Borg NPCs. The one shots aren't just occurring with them anyway, it's also the Tactical Cubes and Gates so even if they did miss the Negh'var it's largely irrelevant as the initial problem NPCs are still a problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-24-2012, 04:56 PM
well every cure iv done to nite= 20 has been a fail

reason 1 one hit wonders non stop
reasopn 2 the raptor are spawning hitting nim 3k to 30k no ship can stand that for long
reason 3 the war birds spawn hitting 5kmin to 185k (most iv been hit) if not one wounder shot bye bye

now kit fine playable so is infected but cure is ****ed up beyound insane from what i can see war birds have been turnd into twin tac cubes with super boosters and raptors are cube with super boosters

yet i can do elite kit and solo a cube fine take 2 sheres fine i can do elite infected solo the cubes there fine
take on 3 spheres fine go to cure ur need a full fleet of 50+ships umm i think someone messed up the scrips for that stf what happen u run out of coffee ???? and started getting sleepy when reprogaming that one?????

or was it just pass ur bed time??????
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
04-24-2012, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krenlik View Post
No, my point is that he THINKS his hull resist is that high... it's possible that occasionally wierd values get used instead of the proper one, etc.
No, I don't "think" my hull resists are that high.

I know they are that high and more importantly the game thinks & knows they are that high, that's how you get the values listed in my thread title.

Regardless, the Torpedo hit for 166K damage before my resistances, and this hit me through full (MACO MK XII) shields which have 5% bleedthrough.

So yeah, something is definitely screwy, but the combat log doesn't really tell us what it is except that I resisted more than 50% of the damage of the HYT III Plasma Torp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krenlik View Post
According to the devs only high yield shootable torps from tactical cubes should be able to get anywhere close to that... not normal torpedos from these other ships. That indicates that something screwy is going on in their calculations, not that torpedos are too strong.... since, as you note, they'd never create a torpedo that strong deliberately.

I agree something is screwy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TF-Omega View Post
You'll note that cryptic only mentioned "borg" in the release notes and while the negh'var is technically borg, the logic for the klingon ship was/is probably in a different section of the source code that they didn't address, hence why one shot kills still occur with them.
You'll note that all ships on STFs are called "Borg XXX" at the start of their name, they all take added damage from the Borg Procs.

It's most likely that they are tagged as [Borg] in their code.


You also are not accurately quoting the release notes:



STF Borg:

Slightly reduced damage output of all classes of STF Borg.
Cubes and Tactical Cubes saw a slightly greater reduction
, percentage-wise.

Slightly reduced the damage output of all Dreadnought-class ships, game-wide.



While it's just speculation, I think Borg Negh'var would fall into at least one of those categories if not both.


It might have to do with the fact that they not only have access to Torpedo damage scales well beyond what players are capable of, but also that these Battlecruisers have access to High Yield 3 (which is impossible for a player Negh'var since it is a Lt Comm Tac Power).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
04-24-2012, 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
No, I don't "think" my hull resists are that high.

I know they are that high and more importantly the game thinks & knows they are that high, that's how you get the values listed in my thread title.
We're getting sidetracked. I was listing it as one of a dozen possible factors that the game could be using incorrectly. The point was that I don't think it's as simple as "weapon damage = X". Other values are being used incorrectly. Maybe someone declared a variable as an unsigned int and a value went to -200, which then gets interpretted as +169k since it's unsigned and doesn't recognize the negative bit.

Again... just an example of the sort of thing that COULD be happening, lets not pick it apart either. Maybe your defense value is getting set to an outrageously low number in the middle of the calculation. etc. Just things that could be happening.



The devs need to do actual debugging of all of the variables and calculations when the really big hits happen to nail it down rather than "reduce damage slightly" and hope it goes away.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
04-25-2012, 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krenlik View Post
We're getting sidetracked. I was listing it as one of a dozen possible factors that the game could be using incorrectly. The point was that I don't think it's as simple as "weapon damage = X". Other values are being used incorrectly. Maybe someone declared a variable as an unsigned int and a value went to -200, which then gets interpretted as +169k since it's unsigned and doesn't recognize the negative bit.

Again... just an example of the sort of thing that COULD be happening, lets not pick it apart either. Maybe your defense value is getting set to an outrageously low number in the middle of the calculation. etc. Just things that could be happening.



The devs need to do actual debugging of all of the variables and calculations when the really big hits happen to nail it down rather than "reduce damage slightly" and hope it goes away.
This I agree with.
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