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# 21
04-23-2012, 06:50 PM
Husa (if I may call him that)

Is talking about when spread 1st came out it was "bugged" and critted like something that crits alot. it was fixed.
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# 22
04-23-2012, 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigduckie
Husa (if I may call him that)

Is talking about when spread 1st came out it was "bugged" and critted like something that crits alot. it was fixed.
I'm not so sure about this... his post was dated 4/16/2012, well after the big crit Torp spreads were fixed. With HYT being only +15% higher than TS, and only single-target, it is not a "huge" damage boost, especially when modern weapon consoles add +26%. TS actually gains big DPS over HYT when engaging multiple targets (which is the norm in elite STF's).
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# 23
04-23-2012, 08:46 PM
I used to run a cannon cruiser with CRF or CSV (I switch boffs depending on scenario) but I recently swapped out the cannons for extra DBBs and torpedoes, the reason being the new STF changes reward staying fast and attacking from a longer range. Also I felt the little pew pew of the light cannons was nothing compared to the sushi-slicing PEWWWWWWW of a DBB set on BFaW

Because of the limited tactical slots on an assault cruiser I went with BFaW and TS as my primary damage causing implements due to reasons aforesaid - crowd control is important for ESTFs.

I also like calling out 'Full peanut butter spread!' when I activate the TS and crap all over a bunch of poor probes.

Besides, both BFaW and TS are also effective versus single targets, with DBBs and buffs, tremendously so.

The only reason why I would use HY is if the ship is going to spam both front and rear torpedoes simultaneously (as my RSV can, fire fore then swing around fast and spam again from aft), or to see those fantastic heavy tricobalt device graphics.

But seeing as TCBs are really useless due to the low rate of fire I decided BFaW was a much better skill than HY.
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# 24
04-25-2012, 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corgatag
I don't have the game in front of me to check, but if someone else does here's how to get the numbers:
Tested with a Standard White Mk XII Quantum Torp

Unslotted Damage: 3342 (393 DPS)

Base Slotted Damage: 4830 (568 DPS)
(with Weapons Training 9 and Projectile Weapons 9)


** Damage Numbers by Skill **

Base Slotted Damage: 4830

with TS3: 2848 x4 = 11392 (Max 5 Targets)
with TS2: 3330 x3 = 9990 (Max 4 Targets)
with TS1: 4303 x2 = 8606 (Max 3 Targets)
with HY3: 3560 x4 = 14240
with HY2: 4163 x3 = 12489
with HY1: 5378 x2 = 10756

** Best Damage versus 1 Target, in descending order: **

HY3: +194.82% of Base Slotted Damage
HY2: +158.57% of Base Slotted Damage
TS3: +135.86% of Base Slotted Damage
HY1: +122.69% of Base Slotted Damage
TS2: +106.83% of Base Slotted Damage
TS1: +78.18% of Base Slotted Damage



Obviously, Spread attacks are ALWAYS better if you have more than one foe in your 90' torpedo arc.

However the damage can really start to skyrocket with Spread attacks if enemies are tightly clustered together (to stack up splash damage). Unfortunately splash damage is only really applicable in a few limited situations, since it requires ships to be very close together - within 300m of each other to see any benefit. The most common real-game examples of this will include fighters, probes, and anything you've bunched up with a Gravity Well.


Note also that:

(i) The more tightly bundled your foes are, the higher the damage numbers will rise - the torpedo explosion AoE is only 300m wide and splash damage drops off linearly - so a ship sitting 75m away will get 75% of the normal explosion damage, 150m will get 50%, etc.

(ii) Each HY powers is EXACTLY 1.25 times the damage of the same-tier TS power versus one target.

(iii) Moving from HY2 to HY3 or TS2 to TS3 is a slightly higher damage increase than moving from HY1 to HY2 or TS1 to TS2.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stacking Other Buffs

Using Tactical Team grants a buff to "Projectile Weapons" which increases damage slightly (approx an extra 2.8% for me - varies very slightly from 2.79 to 2.81 which is probably due to rounding).

** Numbers with Tactical Team 1: **

Normal slotted damage: 4965

with TS3: 2928 x4 = 11712
with TS2: 3423 x3 = 10269
with TS1: 4423 x2 = 8846
with HY3: 3660 x4 = 14640
with HY2: 4279 x3 = 12837
with HY1: 5529 x2 = 11058


Using Attack Pattern Omega grants a flat damage buff. This gets applied against your standard slotted damage AFTER skills are applied... so if you use both Tactical Team 1 and APO1, Tac Team 1 raises your damage by buffing your projectile weapons skill, then APO1 grants you 115% of this (already increased) base damage.

The upshot is that you'll get more damage than you'd expect.

An example of this multiplicative damage stacking with real numbers:

+ TS3 (by itself, 0 buffs): 11392 "standard" damage
+ TS3 with TT1 (+PW Skill): 11712 [an extra + 2.81% of standard]
+ TS3 with APO3 (+ Damage): 14220 [an extra +24.82% of standard]
+ TS3 with both TT1 + APO3: 14616 [an extra +28.30% of standard]


Basically, make sure you have Tac Team running whenever you fire off your other damage buffs... it'll give your torps a little extra "Oomph".

----------------------------------------------------

TL;DR version:

+ Stack your buffs (nothing new here)

+ Take HY over TS only if you need to damage one thing at a time. (This rules out a lot of roles in endgame PvE, eg STFs with Kittomer probes, Kang attack waves, and Nanite Spheres - but HY will usually be quicker at killing single big targets like Tac Cubes and Structures)
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# 25
04-25-2012, 09:07 AM
On my escort i have both High Yeild and Spread (also the 2 cannon types) and i can blitzkreig my way through targets either 1 at a time or as groups plus having the 2 set ups i can react batter to what im facing - thats just my opinion on how i play and what ive seen, i ust Tetryon weapons so the shields go down faster than a prom date and then bang, in go the Quantums
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# 26
04-25-2012, 10:28 AM
I always have both equipped; HY III for my Tricobalts and Spread for my quantums, however I prefer HY in STFs becuase then you don't accidentlly kill off someone else's transformer/probe/whatever
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# 27
04-25-2012, 10:54 AM
Good job on the number-crunching Maelwys. Previous patch notes mentioned a 15% damage loss when going from HYT to TS equivalents, but your experiments reveal a 25% difference. This actually sounds more appropriate for balancing HYT vs. TS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verlaine View Post
On my escort i have both High Yeild and Spread (also the 2 cannon types) and i can blitzkreig my way through targets either 1 at a time or as groups plus having the 2 set ups i can react batter to what im facing - thats just my opinion on how i play and what ive seen, i ust Tetryon weapons so the shields go down faster than a prom date and then bang, in go the Quantums
I previously used tetryon weapons but found them a little too anti-shield focused. Once the target's shields were gone, tetryons essentially become no-proc weapons. Kinetic damage is easily mitigated by Brace for Impact, so a high-yield quantum salvo through an open shield is no guarantee of a pvp quick kill. The 2.5% tetryon weapon base proc rate also made its shield drain very sporadic and unreliable.

If you must focus on shield draining, consider 2 pieces of the STF Omega set if you don't already use them. The Omega 2-set Tetryon Glider bonus adds a fixed -10 shield drain per weapon hit (with +9 flow capactitors), easily outpacing default tetryon weapon procs. Polarized tetryon beam arrays and banks from the New Link mission rewards will also provide superior 10% shield drain proc rates, but no cannon version is available at this time.
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# 28
04-25-2012, 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
Good job on the number-crunching Maelwys. Previous patch notes mentioned a 15% damage loss when going from HYT to TS equivalents, but your experiments reveal a 25% difference. This actually sounds more appropriate for balancing HYT vs. TS.
Well it depends which value you're taking the percentage of... :-p

The ratio of TS to HYT is 4:5, so you'll gain 25% damage going from TS (4) to HYT (5), or you'll drop 20% damage going from HYT (5) to TS (4). I can't see where 15% would come from though. Geko's comments here seem to correspond with those first numbers anyway.

No worries RE the number crunching.

I had a look at Cannon:Rapid Fire and Cannon:Scatter Volley while I was at it. There's a bit less synergy between Torpedo Spread and Cannon Scatter Volley than I'd first thought - my standard tactic to killing off a group of ships in ESTFs is to pop my buffs (and an Attack Pattern Beta to soften up the foe's hull) and use CSV to strip the shields, followed by a Torpedo Spread to take out most of their (now debuffed) hull. But unfortunately CSV3 only hits up to 3 targets, where TS3 can hit 5... so in big mobs (such as the sphere/probe spawn after killing the first gate in KA) you'll not hit everything with your AoEs. It's certainly still a potent combo, just not as much as I'd initially assumed.

I'm a big fan of the idea of using "Gravity Well" to bunch things up for a Torpedo Spread though.
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# 29
04-25-2012, 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelwys
Well it depends which value you're taking the percentage of... :-p

The ratio of TS to HYT is 4:5, so you'll gain 25% damage going from TS (4) to HYT (5), or you'll drop 20% damage going from HYT (5) to TS (4). I can't see where 15% would come from though. Geko's comments here seem to correspond with those first numbers anyway.

No worries RE the number crunching.

I had a look at Cannon:Rapid Fire and Cannon:Scatter Volley while I was at it. There's a bit less synergy between Torpedo Spread and Cannon Scatter Volley than I'd first thought - my standard tactic to killing off a group of ships in ESTFs is to pop my buffs (and an Attack Pattern Beta to soften up the foe's hull) and use CSV to strip the shields, followed by a Torpedo Spread to take out most of their (now debuffed) hull. But unfortunately CSV3 only hits up to 3 targets, where TS3 can hit 5... so in big mobs (such as the sphere/probe spawn after killing the first gate in KA) you'll not hit everything with your AoEs. It's certainly still a potent combo, just not as much as I'd initially assumed.

I'm a big fan of the idea of using "Gravity Well" to bunch things up for a Torpedo Spread though.
There is a good deal of synergy when combining AoE attacks like CSV and TS with Attack Pattern Beta 3. My damage output (along with everyone else attacking my present targets) dramatically increases thanks to AP-Beta's -50% damage resist debuff. Unfortunately that leaves my ship vulnerable to borg tractor beams + High Yield Torpedo 1-shots, but tractor beam repulsors easily defeats the latter thanks to its short 30-sec cooldown time.
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# 30
04-30-2012, 02:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMullins View Post
Firstly, which is better to use against a single target.
The AoE of Torpedo Spread or the High Yeild Torpedo?

If I wanted to hit multiple targets Torp Spread is obvious choice.

But which is best one on one?
High YIeld Torpedo is for single target damage. There was a brief time where Torpedo SPread was actually better in both cases, as the damage of TS was delivered in a single blow, instead of multiple torpedoes. That meanst criticals could beocme much higher, since they boosted the entire damage, not just the damage delivered by one of the torpedoes. Not that relevant in PvE, but in PvP, where enemies are constantly getting healed, delivering a single, massive blow before anyone can heal it is pretty useful (even if it happens less often). But since that is now fixed, HYT is better for single targets again.
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