Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31 Mix sets? I had no idea.
04-26-2012, 07:52 AM
I"m really glad I read this thread. A lot of this is new to me. I will date myself here, but I have not really played any video games since the original Street Fighter in c-stores (best game ever imho), then I grew up and all that jazz. Anyway, I saw the STO free -to-play advertised and since I watched the original ST first run I have always been a big ST fan, so I down loaded the game. I digress.....

I worked hard to get all the sets, except for the Aegis set I only have 2 out of 3, but getting close to having what I need for the 3rd piece. I use the sets as a whole assuming I would get more bang for my buck doing so. Apparently, that is not the case. So now I'm wondering what mix of sets to use on which ships.

I have escorts, science ships (least favorite) and cruisers (my favorites). Interested in hearing what "mix" works well for you on various ships. However, for me I do find it frustrating to mix them up. It is so neat and tidy as a set. Call me anal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
04-26-2012, 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raudl View Post
yeah, i use that setup too. works best for me (and you apparently, and many other people i know)

the random heals always trigger when needed, atleast so it seems.

best dps set for space right now is the KHG set 2 piece, period! 25% more torpedo dmg just bombs the hell out of every target. and the additional aux energy you get from only 2 pieces is incredible.
I have read this thread 3 times. I have trouble with the idea of breaking up sets, but that seems to be the thing to do. Does this borg / maco set up work as well with all types of ships?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
04-26-2012, 04:06 PM
Quote:
I have read this thread 3 times. I have trouble with the idea of breaking up sets, but that seems to be the thing to do. Does this borg / maco set up work as well with all types of ships?
basically yes. i guess you could go 2 piece omega if you skilled the science ability that buffs tetryon glider (can't remember the name) but then you need to be carefull what you combine. omega works best engine, shield. Maco works best defelector shield. But 3 borg+ maco shield is kind of the "can't go wrong" option no matter what ship.
KHG i my opinion is worth without even thinking taking 2 pieces, but only for people with torpedo launchers. But the energy boni u get+ the engine itself has 3.8 energie to 3 subsystems, is really a nobrainer. 11.9 to aux imagine that!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
04-26-2012, 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdm1958
I have read this thread 3 times. I have trouble with the idea of breaking up sets, but that seems to be the thing to do. Does this borg / maco set up work as well with all types of ships?
3P Borg + MACO/KHG Shield is a Survival set. I run it on the Garumba (Fleet Escort with a Party trick) and I can practically tank in that thing.

2P Borg + 2P MACO (Shields/Deflector) isn't bad for a DPS cruiser as it's 2P decreases the recharge time of your BOFF abilities by 5%

2P Omega + MACO/KHG Shield is Flow Capacitor DPS/Survival. Although you should have the Borg Console in there somewhere.

3P Omega is a very good DPS set, because the Omega Shields are good, and it has one of the better set bonuses. -50% Defense on a 2 minute cooldown to your target and they can't turn. The entire team Benefits from this.

4P Borg your probably better off getting the Jem'Hadar set.

I don't have much info on the Aegis.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 35
04-27-2012, 12:19 AM
Its been a longer standing belief of mine that the tank ship acutally needs regeneration. And to this point the Aegis shield is acutally the worst thing such a ship, meant to tank and take all sorts of damage, just doesnt work out. The Omega and Borg set work really well when you use their high regeneration with a field generator or two to make your shield capacity even higher.

the Maco is actually a Resilient shield and makes up for the losses with bonuses to things like the EPS skill which regenerates power levels faster. This actually means a higher overall DPS when your power levels don't drop down so low. And so the Maco works very well with Escort class vessels. Even though you basically want to be doing hit in run in escorts, a field generator will fix the low shield capacity.

The Omega set specifically helps ships turn faster and do shield penetration. This works well on ships assigned to guard duties and tank vessels. It is regenerative so keeping the shields up is actually only a mater of properly balancing your shields like you should on any ship anyways. Again the use of a Field generator for more maximum shield capacity helps out alot here.

Aegis set is one I practically avoid flat out. But thats because its a Covarient shield. Now to say that it is junk, would not be correct. Its specifically designed so you can perform a solo hit and run and still have just enough hitpoints left in your shields (with redistribution of your shields) to actually pull off the hit and run.
Not much else can be really said about Aegis other then the fact its craftable and anyone in a fleet can get one relatively easy.

Borg set is a Regenerative set that gives bonus to power levels. Not everyone seems to realize that more power means more damage, more speed, more manuverablity... and basically just more survivability. Just because its a 'retro' set, do not dismiss it so easily. If your group properly sets up their ships so that you have atleast a support craft and a tank. Any ship desiring higher dps outputs can load up on this set. This borg set comes with its own tractor beam as well that also saps power from your enemies.
Science vessels that get put into support roles do some pretty good things with this borg set on them.


You might want to ask some questions here. So I'll summarize a little anyways.

Threat control is for your tank cruiser. It should NEVER be on an ESCORT. (see this alot)

Support ships have Extend Shields and things like Hazard Emitters. You use these on OTHERS.

Tank ships have Threat Control, and matching energy weapon types to get more dps out of matching tactical console upgrades to that energy weapon types.

Area Control science vessels have Gravity well only for the hold, not the damage. (yes MVAM can)

Escorts literally have paper thin armor reguardless of how hard you try to armor it up. If you put a tactical in it, I'm not to blame for you stealing your tanks aggro. Back off and let them do their job a little.

Oh and the Cruiser guys. Beam Fire at Will and torpedo spread sound silly but when your a huge hulk of a ship, put it to use. Its fun to decimate 6 targets at once, especially if your friend has a gravity well.

** This is just Basic info I've had to drill into some of my fleets heads and they just kept exploding non-stop. Now.. we never really even fail these stfs or explode anymore..

** Oh and Skills are very important, having them in things you don't need hurts you. Ask someone you can trust for a have decent skill point build.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36 Thanks for the feedback
04-27-2012, 08:06 AM
Personally I do pretty well with the Borg set. Not big on the Breen. The Jem'Hadar set seems to work well. I had a hard time getting that one, but finally figured out how to get all those sensors.

I have not had the time to try any "mix" of sets yet, but you all have gave me some good ideas.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 37
04-27-2012, 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daya
Its been a longer standing belief of mine that the tank ship acutally needs regeneration. And to this point the Aegis shield is acutally the worst thing such a ship, meant to tank and take all sorts of damage, just doesnt work out.
The difference is that Aegis requires BOFFs to provide it, rather than it being intrinsic. Now, the shield performance, etc, provides a little bonus resistance/regen, but not enough. But, if you had a cruiser with a pair of Emergency Power to Shields and a Reverse Polarity then the Aegis shield would be fine.

A full aegis set would actually give a cruiser decent defense value (fewer hits on the shield/hull) and a fair amount of extra hull resistance so that the regen isn't as neccessary.


That isn't to say that Aegis isn't weaker than Maco/Omega/Borg. It is. The Reactive Armor should probably apply a resistance effect to the shields too.
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# 38
04-27-2012, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
3P Borg + MACO/KHG Shield is a Survival set. I run it on the Garumba (Fleet Escort with a Party trick) and I can practically tank in that thing.
I've tested 3P Borg + Omega Shield, and it has more sustained staying power than MACO on my escort in elite STF's. The high shield regen rates make a huge difference, especially now that escalating respawn times are part of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
2P Borg + 2P MACO (Shields/Deflector) isn't bad for a DPS cruiser as it's 2P decreases the recharge time of your BOFF abilities by 5%
I still don't know if the 5% recharge rate refers to ship subsystem energy or BO abilities, but I'll test it out when I get home. I should see a 1 sec improvement per 20 sec. ability cooldown time if the above is true. If someone else can run the test before 8 hours from now, I will be most grateful

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
2P Omega + MACO/KHG Shield is Flow Capacitor DPS/Survival. Although you should have the Borg Console in there somewhere.
Going 2P Borg + 2P Omega seems to provide better protection with the hull regen procs in elite STF's, but this also depends on what specific pieces are brought. The Omega Shield gives me better sustained combat staying power on my escort that either MACO or KHG, but I can test this again later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
3P Omega is a very good DPS set, because the Omega Shields are good, and it has one of the better set bonuses. -50% Defense on a 2 minute cooldown to your target and they can't turn. The entire team Benefits from this.
I found the 3set Omega bonus Gravitic Anchor to be somewhat underwhelming in elite STF's, but it probably does better in PVP. Does AP-Omega break Gravitic Anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
4P Borg your probably better off getting the Jem'Hadar set.

I don't have much info on the Aegis.
The Jem Haddar shield has pretty low capacity at only 4.5k shields and 150 recharge rate (escort stats). The borg shield is similar but has over 246 recharge rate. Unless you're running a Galor or Jem'Haddar bug ship, the Borg set auto-regen procs will provide far better set bonuses.
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Posts: 120
# 39
04-27-2012, 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinobiDragoon View Post
According to a Dev post regarding the MACO set when it first came out, the 2-piece set bonus is supposed to reduce cooldowns on all Bridge Officer abilities by 5%. I don't yet have a matching deflector for my shield, so I can't test it directly though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
MACO's current description reads as follows:


I thought that "power recharge speed" referred to ship system energy levels since the text description did not mention any bridge officer abilities. Compare this to the DOFF "Horatio," which specifically mentions "Bridge Officer power recharges reduced by 10%" in http://www.stowiki.org/Horatio

Any Devs reading this available to clarify?
I've tested this personally.

MACO 2 piece does in fact reduce BOFF cooldowns by 5%.

The problem is that 5% is kind of irrelevant, and there are not many other global rech reductions bonuses like this to stack with.

It might be useful for some niche builds, but a power with a global cooldown of 30s shaves off 1.5s and a power with a global cooldown of say 120s shaves off 6s.

The one power it could have potential with, Tac Initiative, already reduces cooldowns so low as to hit the GCD on most powers (like TT, CRF, etc).


I suppose an MVAE could have a copy of Photonic Officer 2, but I really doubt anyone is going to use the Lt Comm Slot for that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
I've tested 3P Borg + 3P Omega, and it has more sustained staying power than MACO on my escort in elite STF's. The high shield regen rates make a huge difference, especially now that escalating respawn times are part of the game.
This is highly dependent on the Escort your flying and the profession of your captain.

I could see this potentially being useful in your MVAE with only 2 Eng BOFF powers (and probably EPTSx2) but I think a Fleet Escort with RSP 1 would get more mileage out of MACO's reduced bleedthrough and RSPs ability to pretty much refill all of your shield facings vs. a Tac Cube.

My Eng in Defiant just runs 3 piece Omega, because to be honest even using MK X and being recklessly aggressive, I can basically tank for teams without much fear in an Escort like this. Only the one-shots really take me out.

My Tac in JHAS on the other hand has the exact opposite experience from yours.

I've found much better results with MK XI MACO over MK XI Omega Shields.

He currently runs MACO shield, Omega Eng and Deflector and Borg Console with no borg bonus. It's extremely survivable, but I put a lot of faith in my extra hull with 2x Neutroniums and 2x Blue Hazard Duty DOFFs.

In this way, I can cut down on actual hull damage through active resistances and MACOs better bleedthrough protection. It means I don't need to rely on a random heal proc. MACO shield + 3P Borg would be even better, but I'm not giving up Tet Glider for those random procs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
I found the 3set Omega bonus Gravitic Anchor to be somewhat underwhelming in elite STF's, but it probably does better in PVP. Does AP-Omega break Gravitic Anchor?
I've found it useful on my Eng in Defiant, as he needs every possible offensive tool he can get - but I dropped it on my Tac in JHAS as I found the Omega shield just didnt provide as much protection as the MACO did.
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# 40
04-27-2012, 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
I've tested this personally.

MACO 2 piece does in fact reduce BOFF cooldowns by 5%.

The problem is that 5% is kind of irrelevant, and there are not many other global rech reductions bonuses like this to stack with.

It might be useful for some niche builds, but a power with a global cooldown of 30s shaves off 1.5s and a power with a global cooldown of say 120s shaves off 6s.

The one power it could have potential with, Tac Initiative, already reduces cooldowns so low as to hit the GCD on most powers (like TT, CRF, etc).

I suppose an MVAE could have a copy of Photonic Officer 2, but I really doubt anyone is going to use the Lt Comm Slot for that.
Thanks for clarifying the above. I do agree that 5% cooldown reduction doesn't add up to much compared to set bonuses like the 2-Omega set -37 shield drain effect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
This is highly dependent on the Escort your flying and the profession of your captain.

I could see this potentially being useful in your MVAE with only 2 Eng BOFF powers (and probably EPTSx2) but I think a Fleet Escort with RSP 1 would get more mileage out of MACO's reduced bleedthrough and RSPs ability to pretty much refill all of your shield facings vs. a Tac Cube.

My Eng in Defiant just runs 3 piece Omega, because to be honest even using MK X and being recklessly aggressive, I can basically tank for teams without much fear in an Escort like this. Only the one-shots really take me out.
Tachyon Beam shield drains run rampant in Elite STF's. Once a player's shield drops to low levels, Borg start lobbing mass torpedo volleys that score full damage vs. player shields (no kinetic damage reduction). This makes MACO shields + RSP a liability simply because the latter combo relies heavily on incoming weapon fire that may be replaced by borg hax torpedoes instead, not to mention RSP's long 2 minute cooldown times. When I tested the MACO XI shields with 3 Borg pieces two nights ago, my advanced escort died more often than normal. Once I rotated Omega XI shields back into the mix, survival became much easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
My Tac in JHAS on the other hand has the exact opposite experience from yours.

I've found much better results with MK XI MACO over MK XI Omega Shields.

He currently runs MACO shield, Omega Eng and Deflector and Borg Console with no borg bonus. It's extremely survivable, but I put a lot of faith in my extra hull with 2x Neutroniums and 2x Blue Hazard Duty DOFFs.

In this way, I can cut down on actual hull damage through active resistances and MACOs better bleedthrough protection. It means I don't need to rely on a random heal proc. MACO shield + 3P Borg would be even better, but I'm not giving up Tet Glider for those random procs.
I normally use Omega Shields + Omega Engines + Borg Deflector + Borg Console on my advanced escort, thereby allowing me to retain both Tetryon Glider and the Borg hull heal proc. When I need more defense, I normally replace the Omega XI engine with a Borg Engine, thereby giving me shields with the highest base regen rate and shield + hull regen procs to boot. All my DOFF's are offense-based, and the only defensive consoles I run are Antimatter Spread and Theta Radiation Vents.

MACO's biggest pitfall is its low recharge speeds with only slightly more shield protection vs. Omega by around +300. Its greatest assets are its intrinsic base resists and extra power-system procs, but these do not allow ship to weather more than a few bigs hits, or a bunch of little hits, until all shields are gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
I've found it useful on my Eng in Defiant, as he needs every possible offensive tool he can get - but I dropped it on my Tac in JHAS as I found the Omega shield just didnt provide as much protection as the MACO did.
Can you confirm if AP-Omega breaks Gravitic Anchor or not? I find that its 10 second duration is meh, but if AP-Omega breaks it, then that's a big PVP liability vs. escort players.
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