Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
PS. The.Grand.Nagus is a very well respected member of the STO community. He is extremely active on the forums, very helping in-game and in the forums, and he has several highly rated foundry missions. You shouldn't dismiss his suggestions just because you disagree with him. It's narrow-minded and extremely short-sighted.

Why is it narrow minded of me to reject the alternative hypothesis? I do not understand why that "narrow minded" view does not work in both directions.

If my view which is "the story is the most essential factor to the show" is narrow minded, then why is the other view "they player's character is the most essential factor to the show" not a narrow view also?

Isn't the point of writing a story for other people to play to sit down and take a narrow view of a particular event in a persons life to tell a story?

A writer has to take a narrow view for the story they want to write. A writer crafts their story to fit the audience the story is intended to be view, read, or played.

So what if another author on the Foundry subscribes to a different point of view? They are at liberty to do that.

Also, I do find it encouraging that the negative comments taken for this show is not the story itself, but that the player has to play a specific role.

I am pretty sure there are players in this community that can relate to being a young pregnant woman who is undergoing some hardship in her life. Then is put in a position where life forces you to be someone you do not want to be. And life also points out you are not the person you imagine yourself to be.

I think it is a compelling story that many female players playing the game can relate to. In this show, we have a young Vulcan woman who is coming to terms and of age where she is going to need to make some hard choices.

I find it interesting that the people that have had negative things to write like "I think you should have used red paint instead of blue paint" are having a hard time realizing in the story we have a young woman who is going to be a mother for the first time in her life.

We have a young woman who decided to make quick decisions in her life that have created success in one sense, but they have created some hard realities in her life.

She has been forced to leave the war effort, which she loved being a part of, and in turn she has been put into a position to work with her father that she has had a difficult time relating to. She is scared and filled with anxiety which causes her to run away from her family and her Vulcan heritage.

I think some players are having a hard time connecting with the story is because it requires you to walk into another persons footsteps.

Kaliena in this story has mortal obligations she must fulfill. And, she is going to have to come to terms with the reality that this is not a "run here and do that" moment. She is going to have to come to terms with that her life is forever changed.

And that is the story. And that is why this role has to be played by this character in this show.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
04-29-2012, 03:54 PM
Anyone who thinks a heap of vertex is sexy should seek out real woman and get laid. I personally find that lame and juvenile and about as realistic as a porn movie.
Why would the old Vulcan prof "love" anything? It is not logical.
You think yourself as the director and the player as the spectator/audience. Wrong. In a game, you just set the stage. The player is the director. That is the core difference between a Video/Movie and a Video game. What you aim for is a Machinimia.
Modern houses have a separate bathroom attached to each bedroom. Prison cells have toilets in the corner. "Players loved it" I'm sorry, but the number of playthroughs and the score tells a different story. People don't care about the number of output holes and output types an alien have. And I keep a 50 steps distance from anyone who do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43 No
04-29-2012, 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendra80 View Post
Anyone who thinks a heap of vertex is sexy should seek out real woman and get laid. I personally find that lame and juvenile and about as realistic as a porn movie.
Why would the old Vulcan prof "love" anything? It is not logical.
You think yourself as the director and the player as the spectator/audience. Wrong. In a game, you just set the stage. The player is the director. That is the core difference between a Video/Movie and a Video game. What you aim for is a Machinimia.
Modern houses have a separate bathroom attached to each bedroom. Prison cells have toilets in the corner. "Players loved it" I'm sorry, but the number of playthroughs and the score tells a different story. People don't care about the number of output holes and output types an alien have. And I keep a 50 steps distance from anyone who do.
You suggest that Vulcans in the entire society of Vulcan are cookie cutter people. It was his wife Paulina that bought the hologram for Dr. Siror. Dr. Siror thinks of it as a nice alien entity in their home. His wife Paulina, who is human, is the sexy frisky one.

You are wrong. The player in this show is the role player. The writer and producer of the story is the Producer and Director.

No you mean, you do not care to know. Six other people share a different opinion then you do.

We are not concern with the people that do not like the story, we are only concern with the people who do like the story.

It is not about majority decision. Our what a majority would prefer. We are writing a story for a minority of players who do want to play a story and experience Vulcan culture.

And if Holograms were not sexy, then why is it when I walk through SWTOR I see hologram go-go dancers everywhere.

However, the HL-6 Mk 1 is not a go-go dancer, she is a housekeeper.

And I would point out to that you have not said anything negative about the story, your comments are all on products and appliances in the Vulcan home.


And you are wrong about the juvenile and lame thing.

No one working on this show is a juvenile. And have you ever read any real novels or any Danielle Steele novels?

I would venture to guess you would not even know who she is.

Thank you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
04-29-2012, 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klytemnestra
This story is our first attempt to bring a real novel to the Foundry on Star Trek Online.

What defines a "real" novel?
Personally speaking, I *applaud* this.

Foundry missions come in a variety of styles. You're not the first to bring a "novel" approach (pun intended). Try my mission, "Dreams of Salvation and Glory", which is more of a novella than a novel.

I know I'm looking forward to trying your mission. Stay the course.,,

Tucana
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
04-29-2012, 10:24 PM
Woe unto those with average talent who fancy themselves to be Renaissance artists.

Klytemnestra is obviously in love with her creation. She asks for feedback then rejects honest criticism offered with the best intent, as if nobody but her knows the best way to present this story. She reminds me of Ed Wood.

The story is awful to play through for all the reasons expounded by previous posters. Klytemnestra needs to start accepting that the negative feedback has some merit or she'll only succeed in attracting even more flak over her mess of a holonovel.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgotten-Nemesis View Post
Woe unto those with average talent who fancy themselves to be Renaissance artists.

Klytemnestra is obviously in love with her creation. She asks for feedback then rejects honest criticism offered with the best intent, as if nobody but her knows the best way to present this story. She reminds me of Ed Wood.

The story is awful to play through for all the reasons expounded by previous posters. Klytemnestra needs to start accepting that the negative feedback has some merit or she'll only succeed in attracting even more flak over her mess of a holonovel.
  • You bet I love my creation. Call of Cthulhu will never be a CCS style mission, you just need to accept that as reality.
  • I did not ask for feedback. I only posted that Call of Cthulhu was out and ready for play. Then other people leaped in and demanded that I had to make the story how they prescribe. I simply replied that I do not.
  • That is correct, no one but me knows how to present the story I am writing because I am the one along with Joanna who wrote the story. It is real arrogance to tell someone else how they must write their own story.
  • You did not state any reasons that pertain to the story because the story as a whole is to complex for you to grasp. However, once all 6 parts are complete it will be obvious why this story could not be told in the manner a few people demand that it should be told in. By my count it is only 4 people now.
  • I never asked anyone to tell me in what method I should distribute Call of Cthulhu, and I do not need to all my stories are rock solid.
  • If people want to give advice, I am okay with that. However, I do not have to take the advice.

Also, I do not know what a "Renaissance artists" means or implies. Off hand I would venture to guess it means a rebirth or renewal. Also, I do not believe in artists. I learned that in an Aesthetics class I took in college. Artist are all fakes. They produce things that have no practical use in society.

For example, an artist who paints is a poor painter who has talent to paint but lacks the skill to be a professional painter.

Thank you
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
04-29-2012, 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klytemnestra
We are not concern with the people that do not like the story, we are only concern with the people who do like the story.
So what you're saying is that you're going to ignore honest critique trying to help you become a better, more widely known foundry author by fixing what several people believe to be issues with your story, in preference of only listening to these five people who like the mission?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klytemnestra
I did not ask for feedback. I only posted that Call of Cthulhu was out and ready for play. Then other people leaped in and demanded that I had to make the story how they prescribe. I simply replied that I do not.
We aren't 'demanding' anything. That you think we are is sending me, a teacher with serious training in seeing these sorts of mechanisms, a clear signal that you're becoming extremely defensive. We. Are trying. To HELP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klytemnestra
Also, I do not know what a "Renaissance artists" means or implies. Off hand I would venture to guess it means a rebirth or renewal.

A Renaissance Artist typically refers to a type of person who is extremely skilled and talented in a variety of arts, sciences, and humanities. This is also referred to as a Renaissance Man. Leonardo daVinci is the most famous, though Issac Asimov, Albert Einstein, and Benjamin Franklin would also fit the role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klytemnestra
Also, I do not believe in artists. I learned that in an Aesthetics class I took in college. Artist are all fakes. They produce things that have no practical use in society.

For example, an artist who paints is a poor painter who has talent to paint but lacks the skill to be a professional painter.

Thank you
So what are they, a conspiracy of Gallery Directors?

A professional painter paints rooms a single color.

An artist, if he's good enough, can paint hope. It's a form of communication. To say that art has no practical use in society is to both disavow everything that humans are as social creatures, and to in a broad stroke render the work of Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Van Gogh, Picasso, Clemens, Poe, Kipling, and all other authors and painters, sculptors and actors as hacks.

Incidentally, Call of Cthulu is a work of art. Your foundry mission is, arguably, a work of art.

We're trying to help you grow, to gain in skill by taking our responses to make your work better through critique.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48 Yes
04-30-2012, 12:23 AM
Quote:
So what you're saying is that you're going to ignore honest critique trying to help you become a better, more widely known foundry author by fixing what several people believe to be issues with your story, in preference of only listening to these five people who like the mission?
Yes, our goal is not be the most popular people on the planet.

Our goal and purpose was to write a novel story based on a table-top role play game not a MMO (which means nothing by the way, that is FPS speak), the game is a MMORPG.

And anyone who cannot write the acronym MMORPG correctly when giving a critique on my post, I will never accept their opinions because they are not role players. What they produce on the Foundry are events and not stories.

Unless your story has the 5 principle parts of a story, we use 6 parts, and if you do not have defined characters that have feelings and can relate to other people in a non-combative manner, I will never take advice from that type of player.

Our goal with Call of Cthulhu is to write a story around one character who plays one role in this one story. And to put her into a compelling story that people who like these kinds of stories can relate to and have fun reading the dialog with a group of five people.

The purpose of Call of Cthulhu is to avoid writing a story the fits every type of character in the game. This story is designed for one type of character to play one role. Our overall goal moving forward is to produce specific stories for specific type of characters and roles. We have cognitively decided to move away from the one size fit all genre.

We love suggestions and critique if they have merit.

But if your suggestions are to move us in the direction of turning Call of Cthulhu into a CCS type mission or a one size fits all event, then your advice has no merit.

It is like we are making a pizza for people who love meat, and you are continuing to tell us we have to make a vegetarian pizza because we have to make a pizza that everyone must accept or like.

We say he## no!.

That is exactly the type of story we are going out of our way to make.

Also, no where in this article nor in the ones I released announcing that Call of Cthulhu is out and ready to be played do I ask for suggestion or help in making a story.

If people want to leave their opinions I am fine with that. But I am not obligated to do anything other people suggest.

I put the information in the opening information about Call of Cthulhu that you will be the character Kaliena for a reason. That was to let people who cannot make the leap not to waste their time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49 No it is not...
04-30-2012, 12:38 AM
Quote:
So what are they, a conspiracy of Gallery Directors?

A professional painter paints rooms a single color.

An artist, if he's good enough, can paint hope. It's a form of communication. To say that art has no practical use in society is to both disavow everything that humans are as social creatures, and to in a broad stroke render the work of Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Van Gogh, Picasso, Clemens, Poe, Kipling, and all other authors and painters, sculptors and actors as hacks.

Incidentally, Call of Cthulu is a work of art. Your foundry mission is, arguably, a work of art.

We're trying to help you grow, to gain in skill by taking our responses to make your work better through critique.
Hope is an intangible thing. In fact hope was one of the spites that Zeus unleashed onto the world when Pandora opened the box and released the seven spites onto mankind. Hope was the only spite that did not leave the box. But all pagans know that hope and fear are two sides of the same coin. The nine slot in a celtic cross configuration in a Tarot card reading.

Yes they are all hacks.

Shakespeare didn't write anything originally, he took Greek plays that had been around for thousands of years and wrote them in English. In fact, when he wrote his plays, he did not write them for the upper class of society because he was consider in his day to be a bum by upper society.

Michelangelo was a hack.

Even HP Lovecraft in his day was not consider a great writer or even an artist. He only becomes known because after the 1960s when the colleges in the US are overrun by liberals and force people to read HP Lovecraft in a Literature course. Which is why his stories are out of print now.

An actor is a person who gets paid for pretending to be another person. For example, Tom Cruise as an actor is known for his role in the movie Top Gun, but in real life, he has no idea how to be a fighter pilot.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
04-30-2012, 12:42 AM
Alright.

So you haven't played my mission... I'm fairly certain, anyway.

You make snap judgements about someone because they prefer to use a more all-encompassing term like MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online [game is implied]) instead of specifically an RPG version of it.

You bandy about terms such as the five elements of drama, not realizing that the form to which they refer is over 1000 years out of date, while not understanding what a Renaissance Man is.

You have displayed nothing but arrogance and contempt for your players, who are trying to help you make a better mission, while still conforming to your goals.

Congrats, you've won, it's no longer worth my time trying to get you to understand my critique.
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