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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 121
05-03-2012, 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikrit122 View Post
“Talking pure dps is great, but you have to consider skills as well. The amount of damage dealt by DHCs with Cannon Rapid Fire III is greater against 1 target than 4 DBBs with FaW III.”
No its not, 4DBB’s do the greater damage with FaW III over 4 DHC's with rapid fire III. It is only when you add in rapid fire rear turrets that DHC catch up and overtake by a small amount assuming weapon power doesn’t lower damage to much from rapid fire.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 122
05-03-2012, 01:05 AM
There's more to combat in this game than raw damage output; upon which target that damage lands matters too. In most circumstances, even in PvE, I'd rather have my primary target dead first, rather than have a whole bunch of targets be weakened, which is what FaW 3 + Dual Beam Banks would do. This is also the proc chance to consider; I want any weapon procs to be on my primary target. Tetryon Glider works much better on cannon setups as well.

I'll take an escort with an all-cannon rig over something running FaW any day of the week in PvP, and I like to consider myself reasonably knowledgeable and experienced about that subject.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 123
05-03-2012, 08:32 AM
With all due respect OP your post suffers from major CAPITALIZATION ABUSE!!!111!!! And "MY BUILD is the BEST DPS BUILD EVER! There's NO WAY YOURS can be HIGHER! Mine is the best alwayszzz!! MINE! THE BESTEST!!!! ME!11111!!!" When I read it, in my head I imagined Don Lapre.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and DPS isn't the only thing that matters in STF's.

/'just sayin'.

PS - there's some good info there, but, c'mon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 124
05-03-2012, 10:38 AM
This whole thread is pretty pointless. Highest DPS is much more then this simple calculation from the OP. No disrespect intended.

"
Only viable weapon types to maximize damage-
1. Anti-proton beams and cannons - Best if you run Starbase 24 and Elite STF's and crossover into pvp.
2. Disruptor beams and cannons - Best for elite STF's will give your team a major damage bonus, works well in SB24's and pvp as well but it's better to do AP if your crossing over. note: (I have 2 XII borg sets... a AP and a Disruptor and i've tested their viability in crossover and specific.)
3. Phasor Beams - Great for elite STF's will lower DPS everywhere else (same damage as disruptors and slightly more than AP.)

--- No other energy types are viable and will result in a DPS/Damage loss. Sorry that's just the way it is, once again if you don't believe me test it.---
"

Pure nonsense, My Polarons do just as much damage as any other weapontype, In PvP they outperform AP by far in overall damage in most situations for the simple reason that AP cannot have custom modifiers like other weapons can.


For the rest, max DPS depends on everything, you abilities, the timespan you try to calculate this 'max dps' for. Weapons range, weapon drain, weapon cycle, turnrate, weapontype(arc difference), the ability of player skill to keep someone in arc, the target you are firing against, buffs, etc, every situation can end up with more DPS in a different setup.

You can pretty safely say though that 4x DHC/Turret or DBB+x3 DHC +3 turrets is most likely the most efficient build in terms of shield/hull damage balance (Aiming towards highest shield raping) and preferably against 1 single point which can tear your enemy apart. Also in terms of skilling in the tree its probably most efficient. No need to spec in torps or torp specialization required.

(Using APB + FOMM with this setup tears everything in STF PVE away as well including your feared cubes, spheres, etc)

Never the less, even so, a torp on a build can tear someone down even faster, it all depends on the situation, yet again.

Ofcourse my interpretation of high/efficient dps builds are more aimed with PVP in mind, who cares about STF's anyway they are way too easy with a good premade even on elite.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 125
05-03-2012, 02:08 PM
Well on my nattlecruiser i run 2x tetryon dual heavy cannons front, 2x quantum torpedoes front and 4 tetryon turrets aft. That gives me together with scatter volley, torpedo spread and 3 projectile doffs the best firepower in STFs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 126
05-03-2012, 03:33 PM
A thought occurred to me while reading this: how do you not get aggro? I mean, if this build deals so much damage, I'm sure you can get aggro from a cube, especially with a pug. Also, FaW ticks off all of the Borg, and I know that it's tough to handle all the spheres that spawn in Infected even in a cruiser and especially with no tractor-breakers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 127 tractor
05-03-2012, 06:32 PM
Seems that main school of a thought for a Tactical Escort is to run Hazzard Emitters and TSSII with your Science Boffs, which means you pretty much don't have room for Polarize Hull.

I really like ATB over Omega so I pretty much have to pray when I get held by a sphere or cube.

Does putting points in Inertial Damp help enough to justify not having Omega or polarize hull?

I know I could fix this by just respecting and dropping Torps from my build completely but it just wouldn't be the same without the sound effects from Torp Spread.

Any thoughts?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 128
05-04-2012, 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikrit122 View Post
A thought occurred to me while reading this: how do you not get aggro? I mean, if this build deals so much damage, I'm sure you can get aggro from a cube, especially with a pug. Also, FaW ticks off all of the Borg, and I know that it's tough to handle all the spheres that spawn in Infected even in a cruiser and especially with no tractor-breakers.
Oh, you DO take aggro, of course. This is why in addition to putting points in DPS skills you need to put quite a bit of points in survival skills and damage reduction. The idea is not to be able to tank donatra from the front, but to survive long enough to get out of firing range (or arc).
Note that the problem only appears for:
- tactical cubes (normal cubes you can solo if you have decent survival and use the right skills)
- donatra (you may be able to survive the first salvo, but in a DPS escort, the second one will tear you apart).
- gateways: they do a ton of damage if you fire at them from too close.
- spheres by the dozen: one spere is ok, two are semi-ok, but if you aggro 5 of them you'll run out of surivival CDs before they run out of hull.

So in addition to activating the abilities for high DPS you need to be quick to get out of the way. You can also abuse the aggro mechanic by deliberately getting killed for a free aggro reset (will work once, more and you spend your life waiting for the respawn timer). This allows you to go back and stick your ship 0.5km from the target, with much damage boost for your cannons (which suck at 9 km range).

As VyperWoo correctly says, science slots are normally used for hazard emitters and TSS, so your best bet is AP omega. I prefer AP omega 3 + AP beta 2, since going the other way means AP beta 3 but only AP omega 1. You lose the top-level cannon abilities, but I'll take the damage+survival boost of AP omega 3 over any of the rank III cannon abilities.

I never tried the iniertial dampener thing, I had 3 points for some time and it's not the complete freedom which polarize hull or AP omega3 provide. After all I only care that tractor immunity lasts as much as emergency maneuvers, but I purely do PvE, I would not go this way for PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 129
05-04-2012, 07:19 AM
1) Inertial Dampers aren't very effective against Borg tractors. You can turn, but you can't move.

2) This guide was made before the new death penalty, so I would say its effectiveness has dropped considerably if he normally dies 0-4 times in a run.

3) Points in defense on the skill tree won't do anything. You gain at most 20% survivability, but escorts are squishy enough that a plasma torp can tear through your hull and kill you almost instantly. And he doesn't have very many defensive points anyway. He puts 9 points into efficiency, which would be better used anywhere else. Those 3 top points give maybe 1-2 points of power in total, when you can toss them in Starship Shield Systems for a much better defensive bonus.

4) The list of issues you made is pretty substantial. I would add Negh'Vars and Raptors to that list, but only if they work together. That means that you nave no issues with the beginning of Infected, most of KA (minus Donatra and possibly the gate), and more than half of The Cure (carrier, killing probes/cube, protecting Kang). I'd rather have a build that only runs into issues against bosses.

5) I would run APO III with APB I and APB/D I. This way, at least once every minute (half-minute with Tac Initiative), I can escape tractors and get some better defenses.

6) If you run with a good cruiser with points in Threat Control, it's possible to not have the aggro issue.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 130
05-04-2012, 06:56 PM
The only two things that are not situational in STFs are attack pattern beta, as often and as strong as possible, and that tac team are amazing. APB because it boosts the entire teams final (not base) damage by up to 50% and tac team because it enables you to shield tank like a boss and grant a very minor DPS boost.

Everything else is a detail and/or situational. My scatter volley build is much better at tearing down the gate while keeping the probes dead all at the same time, while my rapid fire build kills a cube faster than any other, and my FAW build is on my Sci so it doesn't matter anyway . Oh thats right it puts APB 3 on everything and helps keep target's energy drained.

Btw, I take HY borg plasma torps in my escorts all the time, if your right up next to them it helps to kill those pesky cubes faster . Its really not that difficult/complicated to make an escort that can survive anything an STF can dish out without sacrificing much in the way of DPS. Last time I ran KA I even took two of donotra's big shots, granted that was with my engineer but still. If your escort is exploding in an STF you really need to re-evaluate your build IMHO. The key is pretty simple, boost kinetic hull resist as high as possible, rotate +resistance buffs properly, and pack enough heals/sustain to outlast the targets.
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