Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-08-2012, 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrSkyfaller
No, you are missing the OP's point..and he's right.


Pit an Odyssey cruiser against a Miranda.

In this battle, both ships have access to cmdr rank boff abilities in ALL their stations.


Who would win?


The odyssey of course. Why? More weapon slots. More shields. More armor. More everything except maneuverability.


Bridge officer stations should unlock as the rank of the player increases. They should all be 1 rank below the player's rank.

This allows higher level players to use lower level ships in a multitude of roles. For example the Miranda would be an excellent combat support ship because it can use subsystem attacks and deliver torpedo damage or tractor beam support. A low level science ship is much faster and turns much better than the higher tier ones..and although it has less science stations it could be a rapid response science ship.

etc,etc.
A-<fricking>-men!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-08-2012, 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrSkyfaller
No, you are missing the OP's point..and he's right.


Pit an Odyssey cruiser against a Miranda.

In this battle, both ships have access to cmdr rank boff abilities in ALL their stations.


Who would win?


The odyssey of course. Why? More weapon slots. More shields. More armor. More everything except maneuverability.
In TNG: Peak Performance, Riker went up against the Enterprise in a much outdated ship. Through cunning and skill he did extensive 'damage' to the Enterprise. Before a damn Ferengi ship came in and ruined it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-09-2012, 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Issueman
In TNG: Peak Performance, Riker went up against the Enterprise in a much outdated ship. Through cunning and skill he did extensive 'damage' to the Enterprise. Before a damn Ferengi ship came in and ruined it.
The Ship you are talking about was the U.S.S. Stargazer. It was a Constellation Class Heavy Cruiser.

The Main thing that annoys the heck out of me, and that some people donít seem to grasp well or understand well is thus: Are we to believe that our Bridge Officers simply lose their training or ability to function at their Station when they are on the Bridge of a Miranda Class, Nova Class or any other lower Tier Starship?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-09-2012, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleon View Post
The Ship you are talking about was the U.S.S. Stargazer. It was a Constellation Class Heavy Cruiser.

The ship YOU are talking about is the USS Hathaway. A constellation class ship just like the Stargazer was. The Stargazer itself was towed to Xendi Starbase 9 at the conclusion of the TNG episode "The Battle".



Fun fact: The Stargazer was originally called a Constitution class starship when the episode was filmed. When it was found that the Enterprise A model was unavailable for filming, the Stargazer model was built from AMT/Ertl and Robotech model kit bashes.

LeVar Burton was brought in to ADR over his originally shot dialog and they chose the name "Constellation Class" since it fit the filmed lip flap.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-09-2012, 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleon View Post
The Main thing that annoys the heck out of me, and that some people donít seem to grasp well or understand well is thus: Are we to believe that our Bridge Officers simply lose their training or ability to function at their Station when they are on the Bridge of a Miranda Class, Nova Class or any other lower Tier Starship?
Look at it this way. The ship tech is too old to support the more advanced (higher-rank) abilities. Problem solved.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-09-2012, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cddiede View Post
The ship YOU are talking about is the USS Hathaway. A constellation class ship just like the Stargazer was. The Stargazer itself was towed to Xendi Starbase 9 at the conclusion of the TNG episode "The Battle".
Oh, I had to go back and watch that episode again! I stand corrected about the ships name. It was indeed a Constellation ship though.

Quote:
Fun fact: The Stargazer was originally called a Constitution class starship when the episode was filmed. When it was found that the Enterprise A model was unavailable for filming, the Stargazer model was built from AMT/Ertl and Robotech model kit bashes.

LeVar Burton was brought in to ADR over his originally shot dialog and they chose the name "Constellation Class" since it fit the filmed lip flap.
Oh cool!

Quote:
Look at it this way. The ship tech is too old to support the more advanced (higher-rank) abilities. Problem solved.
I do not buy into that explanation one iota! The fact of the matter is, the Bridge Officer Abilities seem to have very little to do with the Star ship system capabilities specific to the more modern Class Starships.

What I mean by that is what Bridge Officer Abilities are in game that would logically not be able to be performed by earlier designed Star Ships? Each ship has emergency batteries, auxiliary power, science teams, tactical teams and engineering teams. Each ship has torpedo launchers, thrusters, energy weapon arrays etc. What would logically prevent a Miranda Class Starship from reversing its shield polarity?

Furthermore, some of the lower Tier Starships are contemporaries of Ships like the Galaxy Class and Sovereign Class Starships. What of them? Do you feel those ships simply canít keep up either? No, I donít accept your short sighted cop-out explanation.

Secondly, it doesnít even make good sense from a games mechanical perspective, to limit lower tier Ships in Bridge Officer abilities. Allowing all Ships in the game regardless of Tier 12 Bridge Officer Abilities based on their specific role would NOT make the lower Tier Starships better or equal to the Higher Tier Vessels that have more HP, better modifiers, more console upgrade slots, more device slots and more weapon slots.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-09-2012, 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleon View Post
What I mean by that is what Bridge Officer Abilities are in game that would logically not be able to be performed by earlier designed Star Ships? Each ship has emergency batteries, auxiliary power, science teams, tactical teams and engineering teams. Each ship has torpedo launchers, thrusters, energy weapon arrays etc. What would logically prevent a Miranda Class Starship from reversing its shield polarity?
Design limitations. The ship's shield emitters weren't designed to do that. Insert whatever technobabble you want about them blowing out, or the EPS conduits can't handle it, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleon View Post
Furthermore, some of the lower Tier Starships are contemporaries of Ships like the Galaxy Class and Sovereign Class Starships. What of them? Do you feel those ships simply canít keep up either? No, I donít accept your short sighted cop-out explanation.
The Galaxy class has no business being on the front lines. It's old, and was designed for exploration, not combat. I completely believe it can't keep up with newer designs. That's the point of making new things - to IMPROVE upon older designs. If the old design could do everything you wanted and needed, you wouldn't make something new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleon View Post
Secondly, it doesnít even make good sense from a games mechanical perspective, to limit lower tier Ships in Bridge Officer abilities. Allowing all Ships in the game regardless of Tier 12 Bridge Officer Abilities based on their specific role would NOT make the lower Tier Starships better or equal to the Higher Tier Vessels that have more HP, better modifiers, more console upgrade slots, more device slots and more weapon slots.
You're right, they wouldn't be equal. Problem is, players such as yourself would stubbornly use their "favorite" ship, thereby dragging the rest of the population down with them. I'm already imagining a Miranda in an Elite STF. *YOU* may not do that, but there's plenty of people that would, and then complain that they blow up a lot and get hate tells every 10 seconds for not using a PROPER ship.



I can do this all day. There's literally a littany of reasons why things are the way they are, and why it's a bad idea to "upgrade" older vessels in this way. I can make arguments from a canon standpoint, a "common sense" standpoint, or a design-decision standpoint. Take your pick if you really want to continue.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-09-2012, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulif_Davis
I can do this all day. There's literally a littany of reasons why things are the way they are, and why it's a bad idea to "upgrade" older vessels in this way. I can make arguments from a canon standpoint, a "common sense" standpoint, or a design-decision standpoint. Take your pick if you really want to continue.
Iíve got it thenÖ

What would you personally prefer happen during your gaming experience, a player bring his/her Tier I/II Starship into an STF or open PVP match under the current system that prevents players from being allowed to use all of their Bridge Officer Abilities (up to twelve), or the proposed system? A System that allows everyone to use up too twelve Bridge Officer Abilities based on ship roles (Escort, Science, Cruiser), regardless of what Ship they are in? Oh I know, youíd prefer that people be prevented from using their favorite ships in specific content such as OPVP and STFsÖ

However, as it is now, people like me will want to play the game in their favorite ships! After all, that is why we play the game at all. To get a Star Trek game experience that is both fun and reasonably representative of the IP!

The game we wish to play includes everything! From PVP, STF, Warzones, PVE etc. So, if I did bring my Miranda Class Light Cruiser into a PVP match, donít you complain if you get teamed up with me! Just donít do it! It will have the maximum gear that is allowed. MKXII weapons, shields and etc.! If that makes the mission harder on you and everyone else, oh well! If only I had a few more Bridge Officer Abilities, say like, High Yield Torpedo III or since a Miranda is a light Cruiser, Extend Shields III, things might not be so bad. See you in the Ques!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-09-2012, 05:31 PM
I don't PvP, so it won't bother *me* a bit if you take your obviously underpowered ship into a PvP match. Don't be surprised if every player on your team through multiple matches all report you for griefing, though. I've heard of players receiving warnings for doing exactly that - taking an obviously underpowered ship into an encounter in which it hinders other players who are made to team up with you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-11-2012, 07:27 PM
I'm going to jump in here with the end all arguement which no one can overcome.

The EXCALIBUR-class is a 25th century version of a CONSTITUTION-class, which means all design flaw, limited ability, cannot keep up with the times non-sense goes out the window.

And yet, the Excalibur-class is pulverized by the antiquated Intrepid-class and oh yes my personal favorite example of "we must keep it cannon": the EXCELSIOR-class.

No one is saying the lower tiered vessels should be able to solo the upper tiers. But the lower tiers DO need a significant upgrade and there should be perks and drawbacks to both.

The perks of the lower tiers being maneuverabiltity and a low sensor profile making them harder to hit, but the smaller ships are limited in their weapon loadouts making them pack less of a punch. Bigger ships on the other hand, can dish out TONS of punishment, but maneuver like slugs, but then they can take the abuse.

In this regard Eve Online hit it square on the head and the devs for STO really need to take notice.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:11 PM.