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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-11-2012, 06:49 AM
What devs need to do first is to toughen up and act like they have a pair! I agree, some of us are being big bullies, but even with that, that's not a reason to start whining and go crying and asking for your mom... Geez.

Then, start pvp-ing. Don't want to get embarrassed bc you suck, start slow, pvp with different alias. What I'm telling you devs is not bullying, it's the sad truth. And even if it would be bullying, deal with it! Your attitude reminds me of the commercial With R Lee "Gunny" Ermey, psychiatrist and drill sergeant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfmVB...e_gdata_player

Seriously, try getting the constructive feedback from anything we say, even an insult can have constructive feedback, meaning people are not happy with what they see.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-11-2012, 08:11 AM
Figuring out how to offer constructive feedback properly is a good idea. I mean, if someone ran up to you and screamed "Get out of the barn, you idiot, it's on fire!" why in the world would you bother to listen to something presented in such a rude and inconsiderate fashion? Better to just stay in the barn and show them you won't be bullied.

So yes, let's play nice and not be all mean and hateful. After all, the devs have suggested (in that other thread) that they will listen to properly presented constructive feedback, and that those among us who present the best and most properly presented constructive feedback might even get special treatment!

Now, some of you might harbor doubts about all this, because the devs have seemed upon more than one occasion to ignore any and all feedback regardless of the constructive and/or non-rude manner of its presentation, but you should really let all that go. It's old baggage, holding you down and impeding communication. I, for one, am sure things will be different this time around.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-11-2012, 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_Mayhem
I, for one, am sure things will be different this time around.


That is awfully familar.... Where have I been seeing that situation before....

Some place that is supposed to be the Open Testing area for the public....

Don't say anything.. I'll figure it out eventually..

Sillyness aside this thread does have some merit.

How do we know if we're being constructive when we attempt to provide detailed information, and that information, may get used to fix a bug, but that might take repeated submissions until that fix happens?

Also, how can we be sure when something is intended, and something is not, if what is intended seems to change from patch to patch? For example, Reverse Shield Polarity went from Having cool down and duration "nerfs" or reductions, to the most recient Increase in duration to Reverse Shield Polarity. When before the tweeks, Reverse Shield Polarity was at it's state where it lasted too long already.

Also, just because something is working in PVE, does that mean it's intended to work that way in PVP? Even if the way it works in PVP could be considered "overpowered" in the way it interacts with other players?

And finally, how do we know what is limited by both the team and the games resources where development is concerned as well as the games Engine? For Example, Eject Warp Plasma, when multiple are used, disappears due to the way items and objects are rendered. Making it next to impossible to know what part of space is safe. And what part is not safe until you are in it and affected by it.

Sure there is an up and coming code branch upgrade. But should we bet all of our chips on new technology that is coming from a failed project to fix our issues? Or will this just be a step in the wrong direction?

Constructive Feedback.. To help try to discover what this could mean to the development staff, I decided to do a quick google search. And came up with this. Is this what the developers mean? Is this their definition of Constructive Feedback? I guess they will have to be the judge. Because until they explain their definition of constructive feedback. We, as the players, and testers of the game, may make mistakes and perhaps give the feed back that, while we may feel is constructive, may in fact be less then so and cause more problems then was intended.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-11-2012, 01:29 PM
I've been asked to post here, so do bear with me. :p


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilawpilath View Post
Also, just because something is working in PVE, does that mean it's intended to work that way in PVP? Even if the way it works in PVP could be considered "overpowered" in the way it interacts with other players?
This is something I've always pointed out in the past. Something good for PvE but not PvP, or good for PvP but not PvE, and it just results in all bunch of crazy balancing issues. Just look at Science, how it went from OMG OP to "wheres the beef?"

That's why I always wanted Cryptic to have a 2-value system when it came to powers and abilities in STO. You have your PvE value and a PvP value, that way it would be very easy to adjust the system to where you can affect one without influencing the other.




But when it comes to feedback, we all are going to have our opinions and its going to be the general consensus that wins. So whether we suck-up or are extremely hostile, if those varying sides that has the same opinion, it's what the Devs are going to look into.

Though doesn't hurt to be nice and give a detailed analysis of the problem to help the Dev Team focus on the problem than going through a forum of ranting. On the other hand, sometimes ranting helps too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-11-2012, 02:07 PM
Constructive Feedback:

Identify and detail the perceived issue/problem. The problem should be relatively easy to explain and concise--this isn't about subjective opinion, this is about objective facts about the game; so include reproducible events that surround and/or lead up to the problem in question, and include relevant facts,figures, and data.

"Runabout pets from Carriers seem to be causing problems in PvP with regard to their Tractor Beam usage, as they will stack multiple Tractor Beams on single targets, and typical Tractor Beam escapes such as Polarize Hull or Attack Pattern Omega are not effectively clearing the hold when multiple Runabouts are actively using Tractor Beam on a target. This is causing a complete and often indefinite stasis of the target of the Runabouts. Comparatively, BOff Tractor Beams can effectively be countered by PH and APO."

Non-constructive Feedback:

"WTF @ Carrier spam, OMFG Cryptic you suck so much. WTF were you thinking you nubs. You should all be fired, you suck, you never listen to anything we say. OMG QQ. WTF. Carrier SPAM TRACTOR BEAMS ARE OWNING ME AND THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO. NERF EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW, except for my abilities, I want you to buff them because they are underpowered. BUT OMG NERF CARRIERS!!!!111 HOW DID YOU NOT TEST THIS?!? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?! Welcome to Spam Trek Online. LOL P2W CHEESE SPAM TB. DIAF CRYPTIC, YOU FAIL!!!!"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-11-2012, 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemotherapy
,
"WTF @ Carrier spam, OMFG Cryptic you suck so much. WTF were you thinking you nubs. You should all be fired, you suck, you never listen to anything we say. OMG QQ. WTF. Carrier SPAM TRACTOR BEAMS ARE OWNING ME AND THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO. NERF EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW, except for my abilities, I want you to buff them because they are underpowered. BUT OMG NERF CARRIERS!!!!111 HOW DID YOU NOT TEST THIS?!? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?! Welcome to Spam Trek Online. LOL P2W CHEESE SPAM TB. DIAF CRYPTIC, YOU FAIL!!!!"
lol. That sounds more like a lame pve-er whining, but I've seen that type on this forum. Even from posts like this they have things to learn. Like something may be wrong with tractor beams.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-11-2012, 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemotherapy
Constructive Feedback:

Identify and detail the perceived issue/problem. The problem should be relatively easy to explain and concise--this isn't about subjective opinion, this is about objective facts about the game; so include reproducible events that surround and/or lead up to the problem in question, and include relevant facts,figures, and data.

"Runabout pets from Carriers seem to be causing problems in PvP with regard to their Tractor Beam usage, as they will stack multiple Tractor Beams on single targets, and typical Tractor Beam escapes such as Polarize Hull or Attack Pattern Omega are not effectively clearing the hold when multiple Runabouts are actively using Tractor Beam on a target. This is causing a complete and often indefinite stasis of the target of the Runabouts. Comparatively, BOff Tractor Beams can effectively be countered by PH and APO."

Non-constructive Feedback:

"WTF @ Carrier spam, OMFG Cryptic you suck so much. WTF were you thinking you nubs. You should all be fired, you suck, you never listen to anything we say. OMG QQ. WTF. Carrier SPAM TRACTOR BEAMS ARE OWNING ME AND THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO. NERF EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW, except for my abilities, I want you to buff them because they are underpowered. BUT OMG NERF CARRIERS!!!!111 HOW DID YOU NOT TEST THIS?!? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?! Welcome to Spam Trek Online. LOL P2W CHEESE SPAM TB. DIAF CRYPTIC, YOU FAIL!!!!"

No offense about the non-constructive feedback but i usually see Days of Constructive feedback then it slowly becomes Nonconstructive then they finally talk saying we are mean.

I would go so far as to say, there are mountain hills more constructive feedback than there are at the beginning of one of the life cycle then as lack of acknowledgement occurs the non-constructive begins.

Did i just say the same thing twice?

I would go so far as to say Constructive feedback is abandoned when there is no feedback.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-11-2012, 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
I think constructive feedback is what we've been saying all along (how we feel things should work, proposals, hard numbers, etc) minus all of the snark, sarcasm, and rudeness.
This very true, I see too many posts that are valid things that should be looked at and good information but they are dripping in venom. I pains me to see them as I read them and think if that was directed at me I know what I would do... which is not the way I wanna think about a valid concern.

Also from reading that OP people need to understand two things, one even constructive feedback doesn't mean that the Devs will agree. And that just because something went live doesn't mean it they ignored you just that time constraints pervented getting at it before hand. I just to work QA for a game company I can easliy show you 100s of bugs I have reported that made it live on PS3 and 360 that cannot be fixed after launch like a PC game can.

I agree with soo much that everyone posts on a great many topics (obvisouly not all though) but anger/frustration has push to many good people with good idea and good information off the radar because of rudeness.

Now don't get me wrong I also am not saying everyone is in the wrong and the Devs are in the right, not at all. There is no denying the lack of attention that has been given to PVP and so alot of that anger is justified, but it doesn't help. I guess my point is you are likely rightfully upset but someone has to be the first to man up and let the problems of old pass by and start a new. Goser is taking the lead to help us, we need to help him in return.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-11-2012, 06:32 PM
"This lack of stated goals and intentions could also become a major problem" A direct quote of Mancom the Wise.

I shortened your post up a bit. Actually lets make it even shorter.

"This lack of stated goals and intentions is a major problem"

There you go. You were being way to kind explaining it. We know the goal is to make cash. It's a business. What exact model will they follow? The only evidence we have of that is what we observe. So far it seems to be one of piling on new store items at ridiculous prices and promoting in game gambling.

It's difficult to take a company seriously that doesn't communicate effectively with its customer base. Do we as customers have a right to know what is going on inside Cryptic? Of course we don't. Would it be smart for Cryptic to tell us anyways? Of course it would be. There can be no valid reason to withhold this information.

It has become the industry standard to utilize large quantities of players time to test their products. This was initiated by the industry, not the players. It's a two way street guys.
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