Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 271
05-14-2012, 06:51 AM
Originally Posted by m0nk3yb1z1u
Can PvP be saved? Sure. But can PvP be saved without diverting much needed resources from PvE, Endgame, etc.? No.
What makes you think the resources will be less taxed without PvP in STO if those resources are already taxed when PvP has been recieving no attention or resources over the last two years?

PvP needs to die, for the sake of federation gameplay.
Fixed that for you.
Because frankly, killing PvP will not help the KDF what so ever.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 272
05-14-2012, 07:39 AM
Same people same old gripes(balance, consols blah blah blah) nothing changes. Gozer i take it you mean Random teaming from the PvP Qs, if so will Teams that are grouped up when they Q be split up?.
AS a long time Gamer can i say that most of the PvP games that enjoyed longevity had one common factor. Have a look at the Mech Warrior series It was PvP only and what kept it going over 10 years? (actually still going )
RvR... RvR keeps people interested and they bring in mates and entire teams It brings in Statigists and tacticians people who may not be the best pilots but can enjoy the game with their particular talents, it brings in mature players who in reality are the bread and butter of a Stable community. Ohh RvR? Realm vs Realm The eternal battle to capture defend and recapture territory from the opposing Faction.
STO is the perfect vehicle and universe for RvR. Dozens of factions thousands of planets sectors.
RvR for the dedicated Gamers, Arenas for the casual player great mix.
How to finance it? not p2w pls perhaps some sort of ingame advertising?
Hope this helps
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 273
05-14-2012, 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by Trueheart
Trying to "force" people who don't like PVP into doing it simply so they can do a mission isn't going to be well for the game. Gozer could send me a check for $100 each week and I still wouldn't PVP....
i said the same about pve some months ago .. and you know what? i did farm the stupid stfs to get the rewards .... and no, it isn't fun to do that.

well, you really have balls to come here and say that .

the only problem i see is that you said it shouldn't affect the development of other parts of the game. what does that mean? i read this as cryptic is still not willing to put ressources into pvp. if you really wanna change something, make it big. put some efforts (means time, money ..) into it. i doubt that there is a easy and cheap solution which will work. sure, in the worst case it's as bad as now .. in the best case it's a shocking new pvp experience which is widely accepted by the playerbase. you can't lose if you go the cheap way. but honestly, i don't think it will work that way.

if you ask me sto pvp needs:

- a complete rework of space balancing (probably ground too, go ask some ground guys)
- rewards
- new game modes/maps
- leaderboards
- a reason that fleets bring premades into pvp

i could imagine that if you have a fleet in the top 5 or 10 of the monthly leaderboard you get some special rewards for your starbase. maybe some special ships which can only be crafted this way or other nice stuff. same could work for a 1 vs 1 leaderbord or territory control ..

but that would invole a huge amount of ressources .. i'm not sure if you (cryptic) are willing to do that. if not, you can also just let pvp die if you ask me. altough i wish you luck ..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 274
05-14-2012, 08:47 AM
I'm going to go on record as saying that I think making cross-factional PvP non-optional is a mistake, if that's the intention.

If there's no faction vs. faction PvP, that's not Trek at all.

I like the idea of allowing cross-factional teams, but I don't think that should be the only option.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 275
05-14-2012, 08:58 AM
In regard to comments about season 6, I never got the impression that it was going to launch with "all new PvP". What I heard was that STO was importing features in season 6 from some other PvP based game they've been working on. Those features would allow them to make PvP maps easier, among other things.

In other words, the code will arrive in season 6. The actual changes might take longer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 276
05-14-2012, 09:32 AM
Originally Posted by m0nk3yb1z1u
PvP needs to die, for the sake of the rest of the game.
Usually the easiest way is the wrong one... Sadly that you dont see it.

Dear Gozer,

What about creation of a league system, where the players (and I am talking about players, NOT toons) earn points for participating in PvP and start moving up to more "profesional" leagues, allowing the new players or least experienced to play against their equals and not agains some brutal premades who enjoy doing a 15-0 as fast as they can, using glitches like the "spawn camping".

I think this would greatly help new players and will help them to build their confidence in PvP.

We could even have ranks, per character and per fleet. Also, to have some competitive PvP we should have a way to create tournaments, for example, when creating a Private PvP match, to have some place for an observer or a referre who can see everyone on the game just for controlling porpuses.

Also, to encourage participating in higer PvP leagues, the prizes should be better when playing the higher ones, encouraging players to learn to play and to start winning matches in order to ascend in to the rank system.

What happens when you want to PvP with a team formed by a high ranking player and one low rank player?

I think that can be solved easily by playing in the league of the highes rank player and everyone gets prices as if playing in their own league.

Leagues could be like this:


And a small circle with the colour of your rank should be displayed to the side of your name when playing PvP.

Off course there is a chance of descending to lower leagues if you lose points by losing many matches or something similar to that.

I dont know, this is just an idea that came to my mind, sorry if it is a bit messy but I think the general idea can be understood pretty easily.

Thank you very much for reading.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 277
05-14-2012, 10:39 AM
Ground PvPs seem alright to me. Being able to jump around or hide behind a building while shields recharge helps people who don't have a ton of abilities or amazing weapons. Seems nobody's ever in the ground ones though.

Space is another matter. I hate the space ones; I'm always on the losing team. My team always has 1 or 2 fewer players than the other team. If I'm fighting Klingons, then my ship can literally be destroyed in 1-2 seconds. Sometimes it won't even take that long - I'll be flying around and then BAM! I explode. Don't know what the hell hit me but it must've been good. Playing other Federation players is better, but if your team has fewer players and/or newer players with weaker ships and less knowledge of abilities, you're still screwed.

From my perspective there's just a serious skills mismatch. I can fight Undine ships and those Romulan Defender warbirds on my own just fine, but in half these PvPs I can't even make a dent in another player's shields. Maybe it makes me a noob or something that I'm more interested in missions and whatnot, but if you want to expand interest in PvPs then something needs to be done to address this stuff so more casual players won't be turned off by it. The derisive attitude some have towards more casual players also keeps people away.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 278
05-14-2012, 10:45 AM
There is a tremendous skill mismatch. We can't make the AI smarter. We can't make our opponents dumber. The only thing we have control over is ourselves. Are we satisfied stomping learning disabled NPCs while being stomped by actual players? I think the game itself should be more difficult to encourage people to learn that certain mechanics are better suited for certain situations.

In part it's a matter of perspective. Are other players too good? Or are other players too bad?

Just how well should a casual player be able to compete against an experienced player?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 279
05-14-2012, 11:00 AM
So the first big idea out of the gate is to eliminate faction vs faction...sigh.

The number of people doing pvp is at an all time low because of neglect and the continual addition of balance breaking content. It's not because people don't want to pvp. Millions pvp in games like LoL, Team Fortress 2, etc. Those games are successful because they are fun but also FAIR.

STO space combat is already fun. What it needs is to focus on being fair while expanding the fun.

And when I mean fair I mean for new players and experienced players...for any faction or class. Focusing on this would not hurt pve. It would help it especially in the endgame with STFs where some captain classes feel useless next to their tac captain friends.

So having a cross faction queue is fine but why does it have to replace the current queues? Why can't it be in addition? Some of like faction vs faction. Is this really what the community is asking for?

My impression was that players want:

1. Balance (class and faction)
2. Less petspam and excessive crowd control abilities
3. Bug fixes and a convincing attempt to prevent the addition of new ones
4. PvP ranks
5. Leaderboard
6. A dedicated pvp zone

If there's an issue with queues then how about focusing on a dedicated pvp zone seperated from PvE areas without a queue that featured pvp goals and rewards.

Finally I've spent a ridiculous amount of money trying to pimp out my 4 characters guessed it...pvp. I'm just one example sure, but other games seem to be doing quite well focusing almost exclusively on pvp. There's money to made here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 280
05-14-2012, 11:13 AM
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
Just how well should a casual player be able to compete against an experienced player?
Let me turn that question back around...

Why should a casual player be forced to compete against an experienced player? What's his incentive for even staying in the match?

OR, why should an experienced player get stuck playing against a casual player who's no challenge at all?

Is that fun for anybody who isn't kill-happy?

Of course an experienced player is normally going to beat an inexperienced player, all other things being equal. I expect that. I welcome that.

What I don't welcome is any system that removes any incentive at all to play it.

A PvP rating of some sort would help to group players according to PvP skill. It could also be used to balance teams so that the overall experience is roughly equal. That's what I'd like to see.
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