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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Now I understand why there is a penalty placed on stacking starship hull resistances when using more than one Console of the same type, however, why are things like Polarize Hull Plating, Attack Patter Delta and Auxiliary power to Structural Integrity Field being penalized as well with the resistance stacking penalty on hull armor?


I noticed yesterday in Kerrat, while trying a new tank build, that when I used Attack Pattern Delta-I, which states that it will give me +20% all damage resistance for 15 seconds, and then I use Auxiliary power to Structural Integrity Field-III; which states that it will give me +36% all damage resistance for 10 seconds.

I would have expected, on top of my +26 all damage resistance base stats, due to skills and consoles, to have maxed out my hull damage resistances at 75% for at least 10 seconds. However, this is not at all what happened. Instead, my resistances were somewhere around 51%. That is a loss of 31% all damage resistance somewhere along the line!!! That is also without even using polarizing hull plating which would add even more resistances. So what is the deal? Is this indeed intended?

Why the HELL should I use defensive Bridge Officer abilities that provide hull resistances if the return on those invested skills are penalized into uselessness? Tactical skills are not penalized in this way! As far as I can tell, you can increase your damage well over +700%. There are no diminishing returns on increasing your damage… and there is no Hard Cap on how much damage you can do. So again, why can’t I bring my hull resistances up to the hard cap of 75% temporarily with Bridge Officer Abilities? Anyone got the answer?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-18-2012, 08:10 AM
Yes, it is working as intended.

All hull resists are only a +value (not a +%) that is then entered in a formula which calculates the effective resist. Hull resists from skills, consoles and abilities are all treated the same way. They all have to go through the formula.


And how do you get +700% damage? Is this comparing fully buffed damage at 125 power to unbuffed damage at 25 power with Mk 1 weapons?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-18-2012, 08:13 AM
Because Cryptic seems to have this wierd proactive diminishing returns on anything you stack ingame to effect.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-18-2012, 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
Yes, it is working as intended.

All hull resists are only a +value (not a +%) that is then entered in a formula which calculates the effective resist. Hull resists from skills, consoles and abilities are all treated the same way. They all have to go through the formula.
So the +20 number is in fact NOT a percentage to resistance but a modifier to perhaps the hull resistance skill? Hmmph!!!! I'll have to go look for the formula so that I can better design a new build i'd like to try out.

Quote:
And how do you get +700% damage? Is this comparing fully buffed damage at 125 power to unbuffed damage at 25 power with Mk 1 weapons?
@ 125 power to include buffed damage. % is caculated at base damage of MK-0/1 White gear. So yes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Because Cryptic seems to have this wierd proactive diminishing returns on anything you stack ingame to effect.
Well, except when it comes to dealing damage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
05-18-2012, 08:20 AM
[quote=mancom]Yes, it is working as intended.

All hull resists are only a +value (not a +%) that is then entered in a formula which calculates the effective resist. Hull resists from skills, consoles and abilities are all treated the same way. They all have to go through the formula.

QUOTE]

First, sorry for double post... do you know what the formula is or where to find it? I'm rather upset that I can't seem to get my resistances past 56% using three Bridge Officer Abilities, maxed skills in hull resistances and with armor consoles.

I might just have to go back to shield tanking only.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-18-2012, 08:28 AM
Iirc the formula is:
1 - 1 / (1 + x/100)
with x as the resist value (skills+consoles+abilities). This gives a value between 0 and 1.

Example:

1 - 1/(1+900/100) = 0.9 = 90%, the resist of the ablative armor skill.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-18-2012, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
Iirc the formula is:
1 - 1 / (1 + x/100)
with x as the resist value (skills+consoles+abilities). This gives a value between 0 and 1.

Example:

1 - 1/(1+900/100) = 0.9 = 90%, the resist of the ablative armor skill.
Thank you so much. This explains perfectly why I can't get beyond 56% with my current setup.

Aux-SI +36 Resistance Value
PH +37 Resistance Value
APD +20 Resistance Value
Armor +26 Resistance Value
Skill Hull Plating +9.9 Resistance Value
Totaling: 128

Plugging that into the formula 1 - (100/ (100 + Resist value))
(1-(100 / (100 + 128)) * 100 = 56.14% all damage resistance.

I also found out that there is absolutely no hard Cap on Hull Damage resistance. So to get up to 75% all damage resistance on your hull, you need a resistance value of 300. I don’t know that that is really feasible. I’m much better of going back to shield tanking. Thank you again for the formula!

Now, if they changed the formula to say: 1-(100 / (250 +Resist Value) we would be able to reach 75% all resistance. Oh well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
05-18-2012, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Because Cryptic seems to have this wierd proactive diminishing returns on anything you stack ingame to effect.
except that the weird thing about it is that a lot of games use this approach with a few variations to keep people from becoming invulnerable. It's actually an extremely common formula. Games do this because after 50% damage reduction, effective health becomes substantially larger at smaller intervals. Health is doubled at 50%, 75%, 87.5%, 93.75%, 96.875%, so on and so fourth. Without diminishing returns, you could easily go invulnerable from just about anything.

Here are some other common variations:
League of Legends: ( 1 - ( 100 / ( 100 + armor) ) )
Guild Wars: fD = iD * ( (.5) * (armor-60)/40)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-18-2012, 11:03 AM
just tell me how you get +700% damage and I'll buy you a drink
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
05-18-2012, 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleon View Post
Thank you so much. This explains perfectly why I can't get beyond 56% with my current setup.

Aux-SI +36 Resistance Value
PH +37 Resistance Value
APD +20 Resistance Value
Armor +26 Resistance Value
Skill Hull Plating +9.9 Resistance Value
Totaling: 128

Plugging that into the formula 1 - (100/ (100 + Resist value))
(1-(100 / (100 + 128)) * 100 = 56.14% all damage resistance.

I also found out that there is absolutely no hard Cap on Hull Damage resistance. So to get up to 75% all damage resistance on your hull, you need a resistance value of 300. I don’t know that that is really feasible. I’m much better of going back to shield tanking. Thank you again for the formula!

Now, if they changed the formula to say: 1-(100 / (250 +Resist Value) we would be able to reach 75% all resistance. Oh well.
Keep in mind there are stacking Sci Capt abilities which give large AoE resists and high aux HE also gives a large resists. Atm, there are far too many large heals in the game from boff powers, to sets, to doffs to be able to justify large resists. If they did away w/the heals, then resist spiking would be an alternative. But, that would change a lot about the design and require a lot of quality testing, planning, and communication of the when and why the changes are being made.
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