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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Hello all,

Please forgive my ignorance, but I am having issues with a concept ship idea, so I thought I would bounce the idea off of the community. I am leveling a Science Build (Capt., BOffs, Sci-vessel, weapons, the works). Now, this build will be predominantly for PVE, but I am keeping my options open. I am speccing the build for VA

The Vessel: Reconnaissance Science Vessel


- I chose this one because the extra Tac. Station may allow this skeleton to hit hard with weapons.

Weapons Package (Mk XII):

1x Polaron Cannon, 4x Polaron Turret and 1x Plasma Torp. Launcher

- I chose Polarons because of the 2% proc.
- I chose turrets because of the fast rate of fire, and the 360 degree firing arc.
- I chose a Plasma Torp because, and tell me if I am wrong, I have noticed an AoE affect with the Plasma Torp. detonation. If I am too close to an enemy when my torp lands, I also get hit with the plasma "splash". So, AoE...

Tactical Consoles (MK XII - Rare to Very Rare):

Directed Energy Distribution Manifold
Prefire Chamber
Polaron Phase Modulator

- I tried three Polaron Phase Modulators and then switched to this load-out because, strangely enough, I seem to hit harder with this set. I think the three Polaron Phase Modulators have a diminishing return after the first console.

Engineering Console (MK XII - Rare to Very Rare):

Field Emitter
- To help with shield tanking

Neutronium Alloy
- Over-all Damage Reduction

Science Consoles (MK XII - Rare to Very Rare):

Flow Capacitor
- Help with Energy Drain Abilities
Emitter Array
- Shielding
Shield Emitter Amplifier
- Shielding
Field Generator
- Shielding

Engines: Combat Engines

Shields: Resilient Shield Array [Reg]x2
(*Note - I will go for the Resilient Shield Array MK II [Reg]x3 if I can find them, but I chose a Resilient Shield Array because of the lower "bleed-through" and the extra 5% damage resistance.)

Deflector Array: Tachyon Deflector Array MK XII [FlwC] [PrtG] [ShdS]
(*Note - This Deflector may not actually exist, but this might be the optimum case.)


That should do it for the ship, now the Personnel...

Bridge Officer Abilities:


Tactical: (1 Ens., 1 Lt.)
Tactical Team I
Torpedo Spread I
Rapid Fire Cannon I
- I chose Rapid fire Cannons to help "force the Proc" on the Polaron weapons, plus it is a 30 second ability...Happens pretty fast.

Science: (1 Lt. Commander, 1 Commander)
Polarize Hull I
Hazard Emitter II
Tachyon Beam III
Science Team I
Tyken's Rift I
Energy siphon II
Tyken's Rift III

Engineer:
Emergency Power to Shields I
Reverse Shield Polarity I


Now, I understand there are sets (Shields, Engines, Deflectors, etc.) that have set powers attached to them. I did not include them in this build because I do not have access to them yet. But now, that I have given all of this information about my "dream" build, we have come to the crux of this posting. In PVE, I keep seeing "bigger" enemy power levels fluctuate, but I am not able to keep an individual ship "gasping" for power.

Can someone share their wisdom with me on the weaknesses of this build, on the point of energy draining?

Thank you in advance,

Drac
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-17-2012, 10:27 PM
A few things you might want to consider:
- You're sacrificing the subsystem targeting abilities that come inherently with your ship without beams
- 3 Polaron Phase Modulators definitely provide better damage increase because they stack additively (search the forums)
- Not running any STF sets put you very far behind the pack. If you read around you'll realize they're OP.

I'll let someone more experienced to comment on the rest.

But then you say you PVE, so anything would work...

Edit: fixed some typos
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-17-2012, 10:43 PM
I, too, would recommend going back to more of the polaron-specific tactical consoles. Tac consoles do stack.

Adding one beam weapon would allow you to make use of your science ship-specific subsystem targeting. That may come in quite handy, for sure. Make sure to use the same energy type as your turrets to benefit more from stacking the same tactical consoles.

Why two Tyken's Rift? You're already doubling-up on that cooldown with TR III and Tachyon Beam -- it's very likely you won't ever use the rank 1 rift. You may be much better served by a Viral Matrix or Energy Syphon.

Once you do some STFs, definitely look into the Omega space set, or at least two pieces, for the Tetryon Glider bonus.


You may find it worth experimenting with other weapon types. Tetryon would give you a chance to do more shield stripping, but that won't help you drain power. Phasers are still a very attractive choice with their chance to shut down a system briefly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-17-2012, 11:27 PM
Wouldn't you want at least a tractor beam to hold the enemy in place so they cant escape the rift? (the ones i can drop on my ship only drain about -10 energy per sec)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
05-18-2012, 05:45 AM
My Carrier uses something very similar to this. You might want two pieces of the omega Force set, for the tetryon glider. Also

Tyken's Rift I
Energy siphon II
Tyken's Rift III
Tachyon Beam III

all these powers share the same cooldown timer. I would suggest dropping tyken's rift one, and moving to Hazard emitters 1, then use that slot for scramble sensors 1. If this build is for mostly PVE, then scramble sensors would be much more useful.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6 Responses.
05-19-2012, 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilbart
A few things you might want to consider:
- You're sacrificing the subsystem targeting abilities that come inherently with your ship without beams.
Edit: fixed some typos
Beams vs. Cannons

I agree, with you on the subsystem targeting point. I am thinking "Target Subsystems" is not that important to me, and I could be very wrong here. You can tell me if this makes sense.

Target Subsystems
- lasts 30 seconds
- has a 2 min cool-down
- to "equip" them all take four slots on the bar

Rapid Fire (w/ Polarons)
- lasts 15 sec.
- has a 30sec. cool down (Rough ratio 4:1)
- and because I am turrets w/ the high rate of fire the Polaron proc will go off once, maybe twice a single usage

The Polaron proc is 25 power drain across all subsystems, so in the time that some uses TSS I and waits for the cooldown of one of the abilities, I have used RFC I x4 times, and probably had the -25 drain go off 3-8 time across all the targets subsystems, and RFC I is one button on my bar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dilbart
- 3 Polaron Phase Modulators definitely provide better damage increase because they stack additively (search the forums)
Quote:
Originally Posted by synkr0nized
I, too, would recommend going back to more of the polaron-specific tactical consoles
I will re-test.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dilbart
- Not running any STF sets put you very far behind the pack. If you read around you'll realize they're OP
I agree they have some bonuses that are nice, but my goal is power drain. Now, if you see a set that help me drain faster, I am all ears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noneofcon
tractor beam to hold the enemy in place so they cant escape the rift?
Sir, no, sir. Though, I do understand your thinking. Reason being, I am not trying to cripple a ship with a one-button attack, rather, I am layering one attack after another, all of them pointed at the same goal - Power Draining. You can only escape "part" of the rift. I am still going to drain your shields, and then energy siphon, and then...and then...and then...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzy
You might want two pieces of the omega Force set, for the tetryon glider...all these powers share the same cooldown timer. I would suggest dropping tyken's rift one, and moving to Hazard emitters 1, then use that slot for scramble sensors 1
I see the wisdom in your sound and sage advice. Thought:

Scramble Sensors wont last that long (not specced for it), is there another draining ability I could use instead?



TO: ALL

Whether I agreed or disagreed with the responses, THANK YOU. I appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-19-2012, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracyl View Post
Beams vs. Cannons

I agree, with you on the subsystem targeting point. I am thinking "Target Subsystems" is not that important to me, and I could be very wrong here. You can tell me if this makes sense.

Target Subsystems
- lasts 30 seconds
- has a 2 min cool-down
- to "equip" them all take four slots on the bar

Leave the separate weapons tray up along with the 3 row power tray. The weapons tray holds the built in subsystem targeting powers of the science ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
05-19-2012, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon304 View Post
Leave the separate weapons tray up along with the 3 row power tray. The weapons tray holds the built in subsystem targeting powers of the science ships.
Point taken...and I stand corrected on the issue of the slots in the tray.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-19-2012, 07:19 PM
Hi there, a few thoughts from a fellow Recon Sci vessel Captain:

I am also giving Polaron weapons a try vs my original choice of phasers. I thought that the phaser proc of a chance to disable a subsystem might be a good match for the subsystem targeting ability but so far have been doing fine with the polarons... perhaps with their proc I will lower power in a targeted subsystem (?) and they are a nice pretty purple so easier to see :-)

A popular weapons load out for the RSV, being the fastest turning (base turn rate of 13) and most tactically flavoured of all the Fed Sci vessels is 2x Dual Beam Arrays plus a torp of choice up front, with 3x turrets rear to maximize forward dps. Having the beams up front also is effective for subsystem targeting which is a "free" ability and can be very handy for dropping your enemy's shields, engines, weapons, etc. The load out would benefit from your current Tac boff abilities, which are the same as mine.

I don't believe using only 1 Neutronium Eng console is enough. There are only 2 slots and would recommend using Neutroniums in both, as we don't have too much hull, already have a 1.3x shield modifier, so the stacking resistances 2 would provide are important for survival.

Don't discount using the Borg retro set which is not only cheap at 5 EDC each per component, but seems to have some inherent abilities that I find match the RSV and Sci vessels in general well... The shields are resilient so less bleed though is good given little hull and the regen rate is very quick. The deflector adds +5 to aux which is good for any sci vessel. A 2 piece set adds a hull regen proc which comes in handy as we have little hull, with the 3 pc set adding a shield regen proc, and when combined with their already fast regen rate possibly negating the use of a shield emitter amp for a faster shield regen, but I've found adding a field generator Sci console is still needed, at least in elite STF's. Also popular is using the Borg engines and deflector with the Maco shields, which spec wise are pretty well the best in the business.

A few other misc points... you may want to consider using EP2W1 as one of your Eng abilities for even more DPS, combined with the CRF, if you go with the 2x Dual Beam Array setup. I realize a tractor beam isn't a personal preference for you but a Sci ship without a tractor beam is in some respects missing a key controlling ability IMHO. Given that, it's your build and you have an agenda in mind so go with what you like. My personal pref is not only TB, but TBR as well to hold or throw the enemies around. Using the Enhanced Plasma Manifold is a great choice for added Aux pwr and shield boost. A ship device to consider (if you can afford them) is the uncommon batteries such as Shields plus Aux, or the other 2 variants, W +Aux or Eng +Aux. It's nice getting a boost in 2 areas for the price of only 1 device slot.

The RSV is a great ship. Part of the fun with STO is experimenting with builds that best accomplish your objectives.

My 2 cents :-)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Greetings, my fellow captains.

I am doing some testing base on your feedback...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoneous
Hi there, a few thoughts from a fellow Recon Sci vessel Captain:

I thought that the phaser proc of a chance to disable a subsystem might be a good match for the subsystem targeting ability but so far have been doing fine with the polarons... perhaps with their proc I will lower power in a targeted subsystem (?)...

A popular weapons load out for the RSV... is 2x Dual Beam Arrays plus a torp of choice up front, with 3x turrets rear to maximize forward dps. Having the beams up front also is effective for subsystem targeting which is a "free" ability and can be very handy for dropping your enemy's shields, engines, weapons, etc...

I don't believe using only 1 Neutronium Eng console is enough. There are only 2 slots and would recommend using Neutroniums in both, as we don't have too much hull, already have a 1.3x shield modifier, so the stacking resistances 2 would provide are important for survival.

Don't discount using the Borg retro set which is not only cheap at 5 EDC each per component...

A few other misc points... you may want to consider using EP2W1 as one of your Eng abilities for even more DPS, combined with the CRF, if you go with the...Beam Array setup.
Plus, this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dilbart

A few things you might want to consider:
- You're sacrificing the subsystem targeting abilities that come inherently with your ship without beams
- 3 Polaron Phase Modulators definitely provide better damage increase because they stack additively (search the forums)
- Not running any STF sets put you very far behind the pack. If you read around you'll realize they're OP.
So, take the basic template at the beginning of this thread, switch out all the turrets and cannons with Polaron Beam Arrays. Also, switch Tykens Rift I with Gravity Well I, switch Cannon: Rapid Fire I with Torpedo Spread II and switch Torpedo Spread I with Beam: Fire-At-Will. All Tactical Slots are now Polaron Phase Modulators. I also acquired the Borg Shields and the Borg Engines, which also gives me the autonomous repair ability.

Testing Grounds:

Star Base 24 Mission
- I am seeing higher individual damage values
- GW I w/ TR III combo is nasty...Incredible damage output because of other ship exploding "splash"
- Not seeing any real advantage for Target Subsystems... (feels like just one more button to push.)
- It is easier to engage multiple vessels and escape/evade/win...

Borg STFs
- I do not know if it is my imagination, but it "FEELS" like I can solo a cube
(and if I am on-my-game, it "FEELS" like I can solo a Tacticle Cude, but everything would have to go my way)
- it feels like I have an easier time "controlling" multiple probes/ratpors/spheres without help.
- I spend less time healing myself (Borg Proc)




Now, without de-tracking from anything I have said above, nothing in the above results allows for deeper "draining". Now, if we were talking about "RAW DAMAGE", I would build differently (Disruptors, etc.).

Can someone point me in a direction where drains are deeper, more consistent, longer lasting and/or harder hitting?


BTW, "THANK YOU" to everyone for your feedback, as you can tell, I take you advice seriously, and I actually test with your ideas in mind.

Drac
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