What amazes me about this post is that cryptic never once thought (until now) that ignoring PvP for so very long is maybe what caused the low numbers of players that currently PvP.. and now they are "contemplating" taking it out of the game completely? I can honestly say that if that happens, I will no reason to even use PvE to build my ship up to compete in PvP, which is the only reason why I PvE and ultimately, the only reason why I play this game.
Perhaps if PvP wasn't ignored for so long, the numbers would not have dwindled down to almost nothing. I implore you, Gozer, to look at the statistics of PvP since the start of the game. While they may be low now, they haven't always been. I challenge you to fix and repair what has been ignored and dig back into the massive forum posts where PvP'ers, in fact, begged cryptic to give more time and attention to PvP.
I play the PvP queues every chance I get, despite the long wait times. Because the wait is so ridiculous, a STF queue will often pop before a PvP will.
Why don't you instead, Gozer, see how many people play in open PvP instances like Ker'rat where people don't have to wait on the queues.
I question your numbers and the validity of them as being a reflection of the true desire for people to PvP. Look at how it used to be before people moved on to other games due to lack of attention to PvP. Look at the massive forum posts on PvP viability.. which has not changed since day 1 of this game.
Perhaps if you do put the effort into PvP like what has been promised since the beginning, you will see higher numbers again. Don't judge based on current numbers. Ignoring PvP by the current player base is only the result of it having been ignored by Cryptic since the beginning.
You forgot a 3rd alternative, Gozer. If you don't plan to do anything about PvP, you don't have to take it out of the game... just leave it alone. I would rather have something, than nothing at all. If you remove it, I will have no further reason to stay because you (cryptic) can never program anything as smart as the human brain, and you are unable to replace PvP with any PvE scenario... that is a fact.
Why concern yourself with queues-- which is part of the problem? Why not create more open PvP places like Ker'rat . Why not create a queue for open instances that does not depend on the current numbers... (i.e. a player can enter even if they are the only person in the map). Show the total number of players in the map so we can pick and choose which open instance to join? Eh????
Thank you for your time and attention tot his matter.
Spot on. Unfortunately I suspect they are aware, hence:
Originally Posted by Gozer
I don’t think I can be any clearer on this point. You the players don’t like it, we the developers don’t like it and all the data we pull from the servers backs up the statement as well. Now, we could start discussing why PVP is the way it is. There are lots of reasons, some you as players know and some you don’t. Discussing that particular topic wouldn’t move us forward, now is not the time to figure out who is to blame for what and why.
There is one reason. Everything that is wrong stems from that single cause and ignoring it won't fix what's broken, won't create something better, nor will it prevent things from getting so bad again. I'm not saying that playing the blame game is necessary but owning up to past mistakes is a step in the right direction.
We aren't off to a good start. We have this thread proclaiming what many already knew but promising to bring more weekly updates to show that Cryptic is very concerned with the state of PvP. We have a second weekly update that was more "nothing to report" but I suppose technically an update. And we have an announcement that the third weekly update won't happen because of a Birthday. It's nice to see things being taken so seriously.
Your call is very important to us. Please remain on the line.
...Your call is very important to us. Please remain on the line.
oh common pvp updates are coming soon™..... at least there is consistency to it. Be sure to be polite and constructive in your comments on the forums otherwise you might get ignored.
Also while no Dev can talk about it, you are going to like it a lot, its already in testing and just great, your feedback was very important during the secret design process, and no we don't need your feedback for balance testing. Once you have bought the new awesomesauce on holodeck and TRIED it for yourself your feedback is a debatable minority opinion. Certainly no feature goes live borken or out of balance. Long live our QA team...as i said soon™
I believe in proper pvp updates, as much as i do in a romulan faction. Both would make me extremly happy and spend a lot of money on STO.
Please see this thread as to some of my observations on why ppl don't pvp and some RELATIVELY simple tweaks that could be made a band-aids while more fundamental (re-)engineering is done.
The brief version is: STO PVP doesn't *FEEL* like Star Trek, so why play? People play this game to feel like they ARE Kirk/Picard/you fav cpt.
In addition, if cloaking mechanics were tweaked, it would provide a much more interesting, Trek-y PVP environment. Here are my cloak tweak suggestions.
1) no more "normal cloak" and "battle cloak". For either faction. Cloak is cloak. If not in cool-down, it can be activated, red alert or not. No defensive buf (as current battle cloak has now), but a defensive DE-buff (that is what always happened in Trek). Current cloak mechanics are very non-Trek-y, and one of things contributing to why ppl don't like PVP in this game. Maybe Feds have longer cooldowns? Maybe damage to shield systems can put cloak back into cool-down? Many options. Maybe Klingons can get a new "battle" cloak with shorter cooldown, or lower chance of shield damage triggering cooldown... As i said, many options that DON'T require a complete overhaul.
2) The b'rel cloak can remain as-is as a special cloak for the c-store ship....
3) Torpedos are, once again central, as they are so slow now that they are useless against a cloaking ship, even if a defensive de-buff is added for activating cloak. See my linked post for a long discussion of Torpedoes.
Just my dime, but yes PVP in sto is poor. For my money, instanced pvp mini games always disappoint. We have LOL to do meaniningless, quick fights these days. If you wanna make PVP better, make it mean something other than a gear grind, by all means keep the instanced stuff for a "practice" area, but to fix pvp what I'd suggest is either making a new area or set of areas for pvp, or flagging certain existing areas for PVP, The explorartion sectors would be perfect, you can tie in the diplomacy missions for extra depth - you already have exploration, ground missions and diplomacy in those zones add control points and control based bonuses and you're pretty much there.
There are several cool mechanics you can use, auto flagged for pvp on entry, captains on diplomacy missions are flagged as such - if killed whilst diplo flagged they give a negative reward including a debuff that stops the attacker accepting diplo missions for a hefty time like a week. If your diplo flagged and attack in pvp, you should recieve the same penalties or perhaps even steeper ones.
Planets, and other nodes that can be randomly generated using the already existing mechanics, require control to be gained on multiple level using diplomacy, ground missions and fleet actions on the system map. Building an outpost for example.
To me, the simplification of the PVP from faction based or free for all to just free for all just compounds the problems, its unpopular now because its meaningless as all instanced PVP is, world PVP is the only PVP thats worth anything and has any chance of engaging people in a long term way.
[Rolls into the thread while activating Target Optics and unholstering the [Zombie Control Compression Pistol of Epicosity Mk XIV], shoots and vaporizes this exposed Zombie thread!]
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