Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
05-31-2012, 08:51 AM
Originally Posted by Kirkfat View Post
It would be nice to get something for making Foundry missions that take over half an hour for a player to complete.

That's like 60 hours of work for me. It'd be nice to get a cookie ever so often, since you don't pay me for my work.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. I wish I could tip more than 100 dilithium for all of Kirkfat's missions and many other excellent foundry authors' missions.

Surely user created missions that are recognized as excellent, especially if they are featured for the spotlight missions should merit some sort of reward for the author.

I can't even begin to imagine the hours that some of these authors have put not only into creating fantastic missions but also into creating tutorials and helping other authors get started.

I know that almost any scale-able method is fraught with some abuse potential, but surely rewarding foundry spotlight authors is at least a start.

Maybe even just empowering Bran Flakes to give awards and recognition to the truly exceptional authors. What could be the harm in that? After a month or so of that, you could try and implement a system whereby people can nominate certain authors for awards.

Any awards would still amount to just a token of gratitude for some truly amazing stories and experiences provided by these authors. But providing meaningful tokens of gratitude to Foundry authors should be a priority and it ought to come before a system that awards people for recruiting others.

That said, I do agree with the spirit and ideas of the OP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
05-31-2012, 09:30 AM
Originally Posted by Cpt.William2 View Post
And thus there would be one less reason to go gold and would further make my LTS a complete waste of money.

As soon as there is another way to earn it, what is the benefit of the LTS/gold that can't be gotten for cheaper or less work?

The Veteran Rewards is the only thing that can't be gotten in game or on the C-Store to silvers. And it should stay that way.
Your argument is basically that LTS should be exclusive, not that it should provide value. As long as existing LTS accounts get their full value for less than what a monthly subscriber would get, then exclusivity shouldn't matter that much.

This idea sounds a bit like what NCSoft did with their Paragon Rewards program. As a veteran player, I lost nothing in the conversion that I'd already earned and got the ability to earn more rewards without becoming a regular subscriber. (Not that I took advantage of that, but the possibility was there...)

I'm glad to hear that Cryptic is thinking along these lines.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
05-31-2012, 10:29 AM
I wouldn't mind this idea, but I think it should start slowly, so one loyalty program and one reward type program. Also I will say that I dislike lockboxes, but since they seem to be here to stay, my suggestions are in light of that. And finally, it was said by someone (I think) that compromise is the art disappointing everyone equally. I am trying for a compromise, so don't expect something that good for your particular group.

First the loyalty program. LTS and Gold keep everything they have now. However, any period of time there are lockboxes dropping, each LTS and Gold member will get x number of lockbox keys. I liked STOked's idea about one per day. If these people want to sell these keys, they will not get more than about 30 million EC in a month, and even I managed that, so itís not that unbalancing.

Pros for Gold/LTS: We have a limited amount of control about the lock boxes, and don't have to spend money or our free C-store points if we don't want to to open some of them.

Cons for Gold/LTS: We still have lockboxes, and we have to deal with them.

Pros for STO/PWE: Giving away keys to people encourages the slot machine effect of lockboxes. If you give someone a free bunch of quarters at the slots, when they run out, human nature will probably say if they just had one more, they might get something good. Everyone note, I speak in averages. Some people will keep going, and some will stop. Some won't even play. Also, by giving some away, you get some good press. And offering free keys each time there are lock boxes encourages Silvers to subscribe, giving you more of a steady income, rather than spikes from the C-store.

Cons for STO/PWE: You might cut down on some profits in the short term, and have less spike profit. Also, you could not use the lockboxes as a lottery method for reduced ship distribution any more, since I think that was the point with the Jem, Galor, and D'kora ships.

Pros for Silver: With more keys being in the system, keys on the exchange will probably become lower prices through competition. At worst, the prices will probably stay the same.

Cons for Silver: There is more pressure on you to convert to Gold.

Second, all lockboxes should have Lobi crystals removed from them. The only way to get Lobi crystals is as a bonus to C-Points purchases. This would be the reward program. Say one crystal for every one C-Point purchased. This would make the prices currently in the Lobi store fairly reasonable. Also, Lobi crystals would not come from the free C-Points that Golds/LTS players get.

Pros for Gold/LTS: Well, you would be no worse off than before, you still have to buy C-Points for the Lobi store stuff. And not getting the Lobi crystals for the free C-Points is the tradeoff for being able to buy them in whatever quantity you need. And at least it is your choice.

Cons for Gold/LTS: You still have to shell out money, even if you are a LTS.

Pros for STO/PWE: As you rotate things in the Lobi store, you will probably see spikes in the C-Point purchases, giving you back the spikes that you would lose from lock box keys.

Cons for STO/PWE: You could not use the Lobi Store as a continuation of the lottery lockbox method, if you are using it like that, not really sure about the Lobi store.

Pros for Silver: You would be a bit better off than before, since any C-store purchase you make also gives you Lobi crystals, so you get more purchasing power with the same amount of money.

Cons for Silver: If there is nothing on the Lobi store you like, well, a bit wasted, but you can always save the crystals.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
05-31-2012, 10:37 AM
I think asking for a free lockbox key EVERY DAY for LTS and Gold members is very unrealistic. That amounts to 3,000 CP per month in additional value to a gold subscription.

I think one a week is the absolute most you could hope for. Even that would effectively be doubling the value of the stipend.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
05-31-2012, 11:11 AM
Originally Posted by greedo42
I think asking for a free lockbox key EVERY DAY for LTS and Gold members is very unrealistic. That amounts to 3,000 CP per month in additional value to a gold subscription.

I think one a week is the absolute most you could hope for. Even that would effectively be doubling the value of the stipend.
DCUO has leveraged their lockbox system around golds not needing keys and uses the lockboxes to get more people to sub.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
05-31-2012, 11:26 AM
Folks, would Cryptic use this Referral Awards program to cancel the Gold/LTS 400 C-Points stipend ?

1. Cryptic must keep the 400 C-Points stipend for Gold and LTS members.
This remains the key benefit paying customers who pays for this F2P game.

2. I like Leviathan99's proposal.

Whilst I dislike the idea of Veterans awards and "exclusive" LTS Borg-Captain awards becoming non-exclusive, I believe that Cryptic had already shafted us STO customers before, and Cryptic would be willing to shaft its customers yet again.

Remember the old complaint about "exclusive" pre-order items enter C-Store just months after STO launch?

I believe that this (unfortunately) is analogous to this complaint about "exclusive" Veterans and especially "exclusive" LTS Borg-Captain awards.

I don't like it, but then again, I won't be surprised if Cryptic shafts its customers yet again in the name of more income.

3. On a side note, personally I'm horrified that Cryptic staff are claiming it's "too expensive" to produce anymore content (Featured Episodes) going forward, and yet Cryptic staff are "brainstorming" on how to retain F2P players via Referral Awards and/or buyable Veteran awards.

I believe Cryptic is looking at the wrong end of the kaleidoscope--you retain all customers (including F2P players) by adding game content such as Featured Episodes. With no new game content, what is the point of referral new players or obtain Veteran Awards, if everyone knows they will eventually quit STO due to new game content starvation?

4. Therefore in conclusion: Cryptic must keep the 400 C-Points stipend for Gold and LTS members. Period.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
05-31-2012, 11:58 AM
This sounds like a great idea. After reading it I was thinking about the points you brought up, and a few things accured to me:
  • Shouldn't buying a LTS automatically make all Vet rewards avalilble (since players with a LTS are going to get them anyways)
  • Link C-points to LOBI (get 1 LOBI for every 100 C-points you buy. Gold members would get 100 LOBI each month on top of their C-point stipen)
  • Refering a new/returning player would grant you 300 LOBI (received over a 3 month period. If the refered player stays in the game as a Gold Member for 3 months you would recieve 100 LOBI for each month up to 3 months)
  • Current and future uses and ways to obtain LOBI could be linked into this system without any headaches from trying to understand the system.

This would make the current LOBI store seem a little low-end and prices might need to be reworked, or just leave the current items at their current price and start including more high-end items to buy. It would allow for a player to stockpile LOBI up for larger purchises (such as Lockbox ships).

The incentive for all this is that as a player it would allow you to abtain rare items by "Going -Gold", and refering new players to the game. Cryptic wins by having more paying customers, and having players buying C-points more often.

It's just another idea for the referal system/paying customer reward for spending real money.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
05-31-2012, 01:29 PM
Here's how I think it could work...

You could earn reward points for:

* Spending (X) points in the C-Store (repeatable)
* Being subscribed (per month, includes LTS accounts)
* Referring other players who subscribe (one time reward per player referred)
* Referring other players who spend (X) points in the C-Store (one time reward per player referred)
* Authored Foundry mission is played (X) times (repeatable)
* Getting into the top 100 players in Tournament PvP (per tournament cycle)

I'm not sure that it would be a good idea to allow people to spend reward points a la carte, so use a tier system similar to what Paragon Rewards uses.

You could make it a ten tier store that roughly corresponds to the current Veteran Rewards, starting at 100 days up through 1000+ days. Tier 1 items would include everything in the 100 day veteran rewards, plus extra goodies. And so forth.

You would spend reward points to claim rewards from Reward Tier 1; once you've spent a certain number of points in a Reward Tier, the next highest Tier and its Rewards opens up to you.

As usual, any reward the player has already earned, they keep in the conversion.

Each tier could have a mix of rewards that are one-time rewards and others that can be claimed repeatedly. One idea for a repeatable reward might be a container of Lobi crystals. Or a container of Unrefined Dilithium Ore. The number of crystals/ore in the container would increase with the higher Reward Tiers.

The big drawback here, obviously, is that it's yet another "currency". Another possibility is using Dilithium to buy Rewards and awarding Dilithium for doing any of the things mentioned in the list above. I don't think it's totally unreasonable to award a small amount of extra Dilithium for being subscribed and/or spending money in the C-Store.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
05-31-2012, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post

The big drawback here, obviously, is that it's yet another "currency".
I agree here. STO Rewards Points (SRP) implementation would add yet another currency to the game where we already have:

Energy Credits
C-Store Points
Lobi Crystals
Encrypted Data Chips
Gold Pressed Latinum

Maybe SRP could just be a placeholder and be convertiable to the other currencies instead. For example someone with 100 SRP could convert them to:

10,000,000 Energy Credits
5,000,000 Gold Pressed Latinum
100,000 Dilithium
100 C-Store Points
10 Encrypted Data Chips
1 Lobi Crystals

Of course how then would you be able to sell special reward point items? If say the LTS option was for sale and you used Dilithium rather than SRP then anyone who could grind for months on end could be able to get that option which would upset those who paid for it.

So it kind of looks like we need to have yet another currency (SRP) unless we go with somethin very hard to grind and Lobi is the only thing that comes to mind since its bound and the hardest of the 6 currencies to come by. Still the problem is that people can just buy the top rewards by buying Master Keys and getting all the Lobi they need for something like LTS plus they can also earn a D'Kora in the proccess.

So it's still some new currency (SRP) in order to do things right and make it award those who are giving the most to the game in the form of referrals and content development (foundry).

The system should be set up to award at least foundry content and referrals because as some have suggested we don't want to be salespeople or some of us lack the necessary friends. Referral wise the use of STO banners that track click throughs or new players that sign up and spend might be useful for those who own high traffic websites but don't want to go person to person trying to talk them into joining.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
05-31-2012, 03:41 PM
The way I see it, this "currency" would be solely out of game.

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