Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Sto
05-31-2012, 10:05 AM
Star Trek Online
I am going to try to break down things I see in the game now, and things that have happened in the past. Also I plan on submitting suggestions on these items. To start off ill start with the unbalance of ship types in the game.

A cruiser in star trek lore is supposed to be the main ship in every fleet for a few reasons. First they are supposed the fastest ships, they also supposed to have the most powerfull weapons on them, and finnally have a surivial aspect to them. In star trek online this is far from true. In star trek online the cruiser travels at normal warp speeds compared to other ships. They also lack the firepower they should have, but they do have the survial option to a point. Overtime this has been nerfed

The escort, Bird of prey, and raptors raign supreme in sto. This in my mind is a problem. I have made a post about this before, but not as detailed. In Star Trek Deep space nine they explain that a escort is a small quick moving ship that has more fire power then it should. Lets annaylise that for a second. More firepower then a ship of THAT SIZE. Meaning the smaller the ship the less power it has to play with. Opposed to a cruiser a larger ship with allot more power.

So lets now take apart weapons. Shouldnt a ship size dertermine how much damage a equiped weapon should do. Or at the vary least give the cruiser a higher weapon power cap. Ive played allot with cruisers and escorts. When sto first launched cruisers were nigh unkillable. Now this is hardly the case, especially with the increase damage of torpedo spread from npcs and players. So doing this I do not think will kill escorts. By cruisers I mean non dreadnaughts. Otherwise that would be op. I think sto needs to get back to what made star trek great. Seeing those Federation and Klingon Battle cruisers in the TOS, and the TOS movies. Battle cruisers have speed, power, and some surivial aspect to them. This is what makes them great in the star trek universe.

The next thing on my mind is Torpedos they have become extremely generic sense the launch of STO. To explain when sto launch the Romulans were the most deadlist enemy you could come across. The reason for this was there usage of plasma combined with disruptors. Plasma torpedos used to be the most deadlist weapons, IF used correctly, meaning you had to close distance or your torpedo would never reach its target. Now they still do a good bit of damage but not anything that would allow a player to change them out over quantom and photon torpedos. If a player did so they would be gimping there torpedo damage. Another example transphasic torpedos there shield penatration combined with low damage makes them useless. The funny thing is the player owned ones damage, comes no where near the npc breen transphasic torpedos. I can have full shields up and get hit by breen transphasic torpedos and loos 20% plus on my hull. Another example of this is Chronite again it has the small chance of slowing a ship, but with its low damage, its pretty useless compared to a quantom or Photon torpedo. Plasma, Transphasic, and Chronite torpedos should get a increase in damage. Or have there bonus ability increased. I think it would go a long way if people wouldnt have to stick to quantom or photon, just to be competitive

The last item is pvp, theres been talk blame games, and all kinds of other things going on with that. Allot of people have suggested a pvp system that translates onto sector space. After watching stoked lastnight. I figured id put my thoughts down on this general idea hear.

Every sector should be open to this, but I think the main thing is taking a small chapter out of Blizzard entertainments book. A person should beable to flag themselves for pvp, in doing so they can then travel to any sector they want to and engage other players flaged for pvp. This should work similar to a enemy single contact. As soon as you run into a pvper of the oposite faction your transported a space map. Any person flaged for pvp can enter said point of contact. Note I would have to say no to a system like this for the ground. This would have to be a spce feature only.

Now onto stokeds idea of conquest. I found that a intreging idea, but the problem currently is the factions are unbalanced by number of players. So heres my more detaied revamp idea. You pick certain systems in every sector blcok that can be conquered by ether side. To conquer said system you need to take both the space and the ground portion. These battles SHOULD NOT have limits on number of players. If we are going to have a battle lets have a battle, not a stat balance conflict. If one faction conquers all zones in a sector block. The faction that won should get a 50% drop on cost for pvp gear. Also the ability to build fleet starbases in that sector block that belong to there faction. While the loosing side gets a 10% drop in cost to pvp gear, and looses all fleet starbases in that sector block. So this does not turn into a greif thing. The loosing said may place the starbase they last at its current tier in sector block that there faction controls. This way they dont have to rebuild from scratch, that sort of thing would only harm fleets on both sides.. Obvisouly I have not solved the problem completely and some may say I didnt sovle the problem at all. The truth of matter is people want a star trek pvp system that involves changes in sector space. Also the Klingon Empire has allot of good damage ships. This system SHOULD NOT BE used for same faction pvp under any circustance. To do so would only further hurt the pvp system.

These are the thoughts of one player. If you want to disscuss them please by all means go ahead. If you got better ideas please by all meas go ahead and post them. Lets leave the s and trolling out of it shell we?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-31-2012, 11:46 AM
Cruisers already get more weapon slots than any other ship type. 8 slots compared to escorts 7 and science vessels 6. On speed it gets a little cloudy, yes cruisers have larger engines but they also have more mass to move, which requires more energy. Hell my Odyssey has 2500 crew, my defiant retrofit has 50, which means it should need about 50 times the power to achieve the same results in terms of speed and much more than that for turning (plus drifting is fun).

Im all for voluntary world pvp, even capturing objectives and getting bonuses for it. I do not like the idea of coming home from work and finding my fleet base is in the middle of the sol system because we werent on to defend it and the klinks captured half of the federation space.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-31-2012, 03:07 PM
Sorry Op, I'm going to have to highly disagree with you regarding escorts, BoPs, and raptors reigning supreme in STO.


I think the BoPs and escorts are exactly what they should be - hit and run ships. Sure, there's some players who can tank in them but I've also seen players do some great dps in cruisers as well. In fact, the last time I queued up for PvP I got owned rather quickly by an excelsior and I'm not a bad PvPer. I'm on of those players who can take out a ship in one clean sweep, but there's a lot of players who could take me out with ease. My point? It's ALL about the player.

I honestly think you downplay the survivability of cruisers in your post - I can tank a few ships for quite some time in my cruisers and even when I'm on the offensive in my escort or BoP there's a lot of cruiser captains that can tank against me.

Personally, I think the ships do Star Trek justice, at least as much as they can for a video game. I'm honestly getting tired of having to redo my builds every time a nerf is done because certain players can't face the reality that they're terrible at PvP and/or just simply doesn't want to put in the time and effort to making their ship awesome and becoming an awesome player.

I know, Kirk captained a cruiser, Picard did as well, they were prominent characters in the Star Trek franchise but did you ever think that they only survived not because of the ships they were in but because they were awesome captains? That's probably why they're legends, they could win even under overwhelming odds.

We've seen BoPs and escorts zip around the hulking cruisers in DS9, quite often. It makes sense for cruisers to be faster in full impulse, but as far as turn rates go, seriously? Did you even watch how the Defiant zipped around in the battles during the Dominion wars while all the galaxys, excelsiors, etc. turn slowly?

Also, simply put, this is a game. Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say and for that I apologize, but to say that cruisers should be near "invincible" just because it's what the primary characters in TOS and TNG used is ridiculous. What you're telling me is that I can't compete with my escort just because it's not what Kirk and Picard used, even though the defiant has proved several times to be just as or even more capable in war in DS9 than most cruisers - In fact... wasn't that what it was built for?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-01-2012, 01:52 AM
I agree about pvp: the most fun activity in other games was that you could go into enemy territory and attack other players.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-01-2012, 06:12 AM
"Sorry Op, I'm going to have to highly disagree with you regarding escorts, BoPs, and raptors reigning supreme in STO.


I think the BoPs and escorts are exactly what they should be - hit and run ships. Sure, there's some players who can tank in them but I've also seen players do some great dps in cruisers as well. In fact, the last time I queued up for PvP I got owned rather quickly by an excelsior and I'm not a bad PvPer. I'm on of those players who can take out a ship in one clean sweep, but there's a lot of players who could take me out with ease. My point? It's ALL about the player.

I honestly think you downplay the survivability of cruisers in your post - I can tank a few ships for quite some time in my cruisers and even when I'm on the offensive in my escort or BoP there's a lot of cruiser captains that can tank against me.

Personally, I think the ships do Star Trek justice, at least as much as they can for a video game. I'm honestly getting tired of having to redo my builds every time a nerf is done because certain players can't face the reality that they're terrible at PvP and/or just simply doesn't want to put in the time and effort to making their ship awesome and becoming an awesome player.

I know, Kirk captained a cruiser, Picard did as well, they were prominent characters in the Star Trek franchise but did you ever think that they only survived not because of the ships they were in but because they were awesome captains? That's probably why they're legends, they could win even under overwhelming odds.

We've seen BoPs and escorts zip around the hulking cruisers in DS9, quite often. It makes sense for cruisers to be faster in full impulse, but as far as turn rates go, seriously? Did you even watch how the Defiant zipped around in the battles during the Dominion wars while all the galaxys, excelsiors, etc. turn slowly?

Also, simply put, this is a game. Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say and for that I apologize, but to say that cruisers should be near "invincible" just because it's what the primary characters in TOS and TNG used is ridiculous. What you're telling me is that I can't compete with my escort just because it's not what Kirk and Picard used, even though the defiant has proved several times to be just as or even more capable in war in DS9 than most cruisers - In fact... wasn't that what it was built for?"

I wouldnt say cruisers need to be invincible but I do think they should have the most fire power. Lets take my ship for example. I fly an assault cruiser armed to the teeth with MXI purple gear. In my escort I take down any ship in a matter of seconds in my cruiser my shields drop so fast that its not even funny. My weapon damage is just not there. Maybe your right, maybe its me not the game, but I am just going by what I see.

As for nerfs I am not calling for any nerfs unless allot of people agree on it. I am just one player, its not my place to call for nerfs. If you read my post I was just making a point that the cruiser should maybe have more a higher power level weapon damage then a escort. Perhaps I need to relook at a few things, if what you say is true, then I am defiantly missing something.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-01-2012, 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sworoth View Post
I wouldnt say cruisers need to be invincible but I do think they should have the most fire power. Lets take my ship for example. I fly an assault cruiser armed to the teeth with MXI purple gear. In my escort I take down any ship in a matter of seconds in my cruiser my shields drop so fast that its not even funny. My weapon damage is just not there. Maybe your right, maybe its me not the game, but I am just going by what I see.
Yeah, you might want to tweak your cruiser's boff layouts and the skill "rotation" you're using in combat. The AC has good potential for both solid damage/control and tanking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-01-2012, 08:11 AM
Sorry to say this, but I disagree. The size of the ship doesnít make a difference. Itís the load-out and intended purpose for which it was built. Fed ships are not warships, they are built to be multi-purpose platforms that service a variety of areas including science, exploration, and self-defence. In many cases you saw the Galaxy class outmatched by other smaller vessels with more firepower, yet I think no one will argue the clear exploratory advantages Fed cruisers have like the amazing trek of the cruiser Voyager.

The BoP/Escort is a machine of war. In lore they are built for stealth, offensive hit and run, and are required to have long service life. BoPís have always proven quite capable in combat during almost all of their on-screen engagements, even against the Dominion where the beloved Galaxy and other cruisers clearly struggled. They were built for a specific purpose and therefore deserve somewhat of an edge in combat as a result.

The reference you made to Sisko's off-hand comment about the Defiant has less to do with escorts and more to do with Starfleet doctrine. Starfleet most likely considered ships that small as shuttles for which the defiant would be overpowered. But as a small attack ship (aka escort) itís well matched against other larger ships and is the reason its quad cannons are so effective.

Letís look at it this way. If you had limited manufacturing capability and were in the middle of a brutal war, would you focus your development on cheaper, smaller Defiant class that requires minimal crew and focuses on weaponry? Or build Galaxy class starships each requiring a crew over 1000, more materials, and more complex construction?

Your idea about PvP is good, but the problem with any conquest PvP is imbalance. I think you are grossly underestimating the disparity between populations of KDF and Feds. no one is going to find it fun to hit the insta-kill button which would be the 1 KDF vs 20 Feds battle. If this were activated feds would always be in control just by sheer numbers unless you capped it somehow. Which, of course, defeats the whole conquest imperative that there should be no cap. So this idea needs more thought.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-01-2012, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sworoth View Post
I wouldnt say cruisers need to be invincible but I do think they should have the most fire power. Lets take my ship for example. I fly an assault cruiser armed to the teeth with MXI purple gear. In my escort I take down any ship in a matter of seconds in my cruiser my shields drop so fast that its not even funny. My weapon damage is just not there. Maybe your right, maybe its me not the game, but I am just going by what I see.

As for nerfs I am not calling for any nerfs unless allot of people agree on it. I am just one player, its not my place to call for nerfs. If you read my post I was just making a point that the cruiser should maybe have more a higher power level weapon damage then a escort. Perhaps I need to relook at a few things, if what you say is true, then I am defiantly missing something.
Well for your first point, and I'm not being smug about this and apologize if I do - But it probably is you. Cruisers are easy to tank, if you make your build right you can handle the damage of multiple ships rather easily. You can build your ship in PvP where other players attacking you is a huge waste of time(which, in the meantime, your escort comrades can pick them off one by one), but I'll admit, it's a rather boring build to play. But I have seen people who can tank and take down ships rather easily in a cruiser.

As for giving them more weapon power than escorts, well, if you do that you're taking away the only strength that escorts have. Not sure if you've played an escort but they have significantly lower shields and hull than any other ships, they're VERY fragile. If you don't make your first alpha count then your pretty much screwed and your especially screwed if you're against an opponent who knows how to keep you from escaping - Rendering the whole purpose of being a hit and run ship useless.

I don't know, I just never personally stressed any specific class of ship in game. I've beaten all ships with ease but have gotten owned by the same variety.

As a BoP flyer, yeah, I get my one shot kills, but you'd also be amazed by how many cruisers can tank against my alphas where I'm giving it everything I got.

Also I'd like to point out that there's escort captains out there who raises the polar opposite concerns as you do. Where you think cruisers should get more weapon power, they think escorts should get more hull and/or shields. This comes from the idea that cruisers can heal more than the dps that escorts can put out.

I don't agree with them even though I'm mostly an escort player, but I disagree with them for the same reasons why I disagree with you - It's all in the captain. If you're in a cruiser and can't tank against an escort then you're not doing something right, if you can't bring a cruiser's shields down in an escort then you're not doing something right. Those players are simply better than you,and it's a hard thing to face, I had to face that there's a lot of players in ships of all varieties that's better than me, but it's the truth and you can't expect the Devs to bend the system in favor of your ship (such as asking cruisers to get higher weapon power).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-01-2012, 11:55 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sworoth View Post

I wouldnt say cruisers need to be invincible but I do think they should have the most fire power. Lets take my ship for example. I fly an assault cruiser armed to the teeth with MXI purple gear. In my escort I take down any ship in a matter of seconds in my cruiser my shields drop so fast that its not even funny. My weapon damage is just not there. Maybe your right, maybe its me not the game, but I am just going by what I see.
HAVE YOU TRIED?

com: EPTW1 EPTS2 RSP2 A2SIF3
LTC: EPTW1 ET2 EPTS3
LT: HE1 TSS2
LT: TT1 BFAW2
ENS: BFAW1

RUN 75/75/25/25 power settings and cycle the EPTS/EPTW/A2SIF3/BFAW1/BFAW2 + APROPIATE CAPTAIN SKILLS ON A KEYBIND WITH DISTRIBUTE SHIELDS + FIRE ENERGY WEAPONS.
save the TT1 + RSP2 and/or TSS2 for fast shield heals.

Look at Mavario's cruiser thread in the PvP forum for mnay many builds that work very well in PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-01-2012, 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sworoth View Post
Star Trek Online
I am going to try to break down things I see in the game now, and things that have happened in the past.
Girl no Stopped reading right there. Sounds like QQ about the $50 Odyssey not being an I Win button and being kinda crap in STFs.
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