Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-29-2012, 01:13 AM
If it's a case of loading the space map purely to warp out straight away, I would be against. But if there is some dialogue and then warp out, I'd be happy with it, provided the dialogue is better placed on the space map than the previous map (say for example after beam up, you detect a ship doing a runner, or some analysis has been completed and you are getting the report).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-29-2012, 04:30 AM
I'd agree with Leviathan99. Intra-map warp would be the way to go. It would fulfil the story requirements and would add enough "things to do" on the space map to make it seem like the map has a purpose.

It also condenses the number of maps needed so it's a win-win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-29-2012, 10:33 AM
Thanks all for your input. I don't think I've changed my mind, I think creating linear transitions is important, but the best suggestions I'm hearing is "give the player something to do" rather than making it a useless map.

I've already done something like that on a new mission I've been working on. The mission involves the Briar Patch, so when you're depart the starting planet, what would otherwise be a useless map, I have you go to a spacedock so you can get outfitted to go full impulse in the patch. In another one a long time ago I did a transition from system to system with an exposition scene in the player's ready room, that seems like another good way to do things.

Essentially it means that I and anyone else facing this in their reviews, if we still want to keep the linear transition, just need to be a bit more creative to avoid dead maps.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-29-2012, 01:43 PM
One thing that you also can do if the settings are right: Eliminate the loading screen altogether using triggers.

It was something I halfway did in "Vulcan Love Slave #9" with warp effects and triggers (dropping out of warp), but I've been thinking of taking it one step further by departing a system (space stuff disappears), going to warp (warp effects appear), and dropping out of warp in a completely different system (new planet etc.

If I recall though, we can't make a planet disappear, so the first map will have to use a moon or asteroids, etc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-29-2012, 02:58 PM
You can indeed make a planet appear and disappear, as long as its one you put down yourself and not a built in one on a premade map. I'm doing something similar in one of the missions i'm working on, essentially you warp into the system normally, have a small battle, blow something up, then warp to the "edge" of the system using triggers and the star streak asset. So the planets will disappear, but the backdrop will remain the same. Then you warp back to the planet you were at, at which point I spawn a new one in exactly the same spot. I'm just tweaking that, trying to figure out how to make it fool proof.

I'll have to play Vulcan love slave and see how you did it.

If you wanted to have people "warp" between systems, keep in mind the background can't change, so you'd have to have generic stars.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-29-2012, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post

If you wanted to have people "warp" between systems, keep in mind the background can't change, so you'd have to have generic stars.
The one that I like looks almost like sector space, and it's kind of amazing how much you can change the environment with nebulae and dust clouds. If the player is inside the nebula it also makes the background look different.

Anyways, play around with it. It's too bad that most of those generic star backgrounds have clipping.

Also, thanks for the info on planets. I'll try to do this as well for the next mission.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-29-2012, 07:12 PM
Nagorak's "Dereliction" has some really cool faux map transitions achieved using triggers and star streaks etc. You essentially get two maps (or more) for the price of one, saves on loading screens, saves on maps in the Foundry.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
06-01-2012, 03:11 PM
I have repeatedly done this, too, Drogyn. I usually try to add an objective before warping to the next system, however, so it doesn't seem so fast, but I do believe in the "Leaving the system' map in most circumstances. It just seems right to me. I do think there needs to be a little something more though, than, say, seeing the back of your ship and then warping out. I just think it would be too jarring to suddenly be in another system entirely, unless there was a plausable explanation for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-02-2012, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkfat View Post
I actually go back and forth on this in my mind. It's something I will criticize one mission for and appreciate in a different mission.
Ditto. Because there's no hard and fast rule. I'm wrestling with a similar problem now. Frankly I'll use whichever technique makes the most sense for the mission I'm working on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkfat View Post
The one that I like looks almost like sector space, and it's kind of amazing how much you can change the environment with nebulae and dust clouds. If the player is inside the nebula it also makes the background look different.

Anyways, play around with it. It's too bad that most of those generic star backgrounds have clipping.

Also, thanks for the info on planets. I'll try to do this as well for the next mission.
I just did this for the first time. It works GREAT. Instead of using separate maps to have the player take a turbolift to a lower deck just spawn out the turbolift the player is in and spawn in another behind him. The only downside is that it makes the mission unplayable by a team. If a teammate is too far behind when the new turbolift spawns in they'll be trapped behind it.

Maybe in a future iteration of the foundry it will be possible to use a place marker radius to make sure the whole team is present before an objective is completed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
06-02-2012, 03:33 PM
This is always a difficult question, because if you just show up at another planet it's weird, but if you load a map only to warp out, that is also annoying (at least to me). I think what you need to try to hit a happy medium, by reducing map loads whenever possible, but still having the necessary transitions so your mission flows together properly.

You probably should not load a map simply to warp out (via the actual map transition).

What I suggest instead is loading the next map with the warp animation playing, and none of the system's planets showing. Have one of the player's Boffs tell him that they're enroute to the new system (or you can already be "approaching the system"). Because you're at warp that reduces the feeling of just "showing up" at the new system. Obviously some time has passed and you're on the way there.

Then, you can have the player interact with an invisible object to "Drop to impulse". Have the animation set to warp-in, and set the planets and everything else to become visible after that objective is complete. Another little trick you can do to make it feel more convincing is to have a small nebula cloud or two around the player, and then once they drop to warp you show a couple of large nebula clouds of that same color. It makes it feel like you've slowed down and everything seems more expansive.

An alternative to this is you can even spawn the original planet, have the player complete an objective to warp out (invisible object, warp out animation). That spawns the star streaks animation and hides all of the original system (planet, etc). Then you do the above with the warping in. You can even make them travel for a while at warp to make it seem like some time is involved.

The only trick is you cannot do this if you have any NPC contacts or enemies on the map, because you cannot hide them. I tried doing this on Perilous Prize and it turned out to be a bust as you couldn't really hide the ships, and people were confused as to why the ships from "DS9" were hanging around.
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