Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-04-2012, 06:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Out of curiuosity, is this change to Beam Target abilities an after thought becuase so mnay are using the Beam targte abilities currently in PvP?
It was not an afterthought at all. In fact, my opinion on the Beam Target Subsystem abilities is that it is rather a weak and pathetic ability to use; given how many ways there were to counter the power draining effect and for the fact that the sub-system shut down is already clearable by engineering team.

The re-work of this particular ability had more to do with what would make more common sense game-play and lore wise. Personally, I don’t really understand the power drain feature of this ability. It is negated by passive resistances and the overwhelming ability to increase power levels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-04-2012, 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleon View Post
It was not an afterthought at all. In fact, my opinion on the Beam Target Subsystem abilities is that it is rather a weak and pathetic ability to use(...).
All drain abilities are weak and pathetic on their own. It's the combination of multiple drains that is too effective. Especially when you include carrier pets and universal consoles.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-04-2012, 09:12 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleon View Post
It was not an afterthought at all. In fact, my opinion on the Beam Target Subsystem abilities is that it is rather a weak and pathetic ability to use.............
Well, I was curiuos. Saw a lot of successful BTsS attacks this weekend in use in Ker'rat lately.
Of course they where mainly of the Bxxx3 variety.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-04-2012, 10:25 AM
I'm not a big fan of OP's solution per se, I think it's possibly too dramatic of a change, but it would be nice if BTSS saw a little bit of sprucing up. I wouldn't say it's ineffective in its current form, I use BTSS as it comes as part of my science vessel in combination with other science power drains (Tyken's Rift being my personal favorite), but BTSS by itself suffers from general uselessness (it's really only effective when you pair it up with other exotic abilities). Power drains are too easy to counter unless you really stack their effects.

That said, if BTSS gets some sort of a boost to make it useful on its own, that boost needs to not be so powerful that it makes stacking with existing gameplay synergies overwhelming. Someone else on the thread floated the idea of BTSS inflicting Cooldown timer bumps to systems related targeted subsystems (I've gone temporarily derpy and can't find the specific post now, apologies for not being able to cite that author) and I like that idea. Target weapons, and you inflict timer bumps on either Cannons, Beam Weapons or Torpedoes; target auxiliary and you might inflict a timer bump to transporters (the Crew system timer), Emitters or Sensors; target Shields and it may bump the Deflector Field, Deflector Dish or Shields cooldown timers. It sort of becomes like a targeted effect of Subnucleonic Beam.

Subsystem disabling in the gameplay (i.e. taking a subsystem completely offline via a Disable effect) takes a lot of effort and good timing to utilize to capitalize on in STO, but from what I understand that's an intentional move in the Devs part, and it is a pretty powerful effect. (Having your shield system complete disabled tends to be utterly disastrous, for instance.) So I understand why they keep the "toggle off" system effects very short and limited. I would like to see BTSS have a bit more bite to it in its own right, and Cooldown Timer effects seem to be the best way to give it that without making them synergize with other powers in an overwhelming fashion.

As for the phaser proc? Well, all of the energy weapons procs except for antiprotons and possibly polarons seem ineffectual and negligible. (I say polarons might be decent as-is because my VA science ship theoretically has a 15-30% chance [2.5% x 3 shots per array x 2 arrays or 4 arrays broadside] to inflict drain just with the weapons fire volley, and with my skill and equipment the drain is -41 power to all subsystems before Power Insulator resistance.) Phasers have never been all that effective because the system disable lasts three seconds or less when it proc's. I think it would be nicer if the phasers proc'ed a Cooldown timer bump to a random system instead. Not sure where that leaves disruptors and tetryons in the grand scheme of proc effectivity...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-04-2012, 10:30 AM
Targetting subsystems is fine the way it is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-04-2012, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
All drain abilities are weak and pathetic on their own. It's the combination of multiple drains that is too effective. Especially when you include carrier pets and universal consoles.
Of course, I know this already. My motive with regard to the suggested changes was to remove the Beam Target Subsystem abilities from the “power drain” abilities pool, and place them into the counter and science de-buff abilities pool. Take for example my proposed change to how Beam Target Shields works below:

Target Shields:
- X% Starship Shield Emitters for 15 seconds. (Reduces Shield Healing effectiveness)
- X% Starship Shield regeneration for 30 seconds (Reduces five ticks of shield regeneration)
- X% Starship Shield Performance for 15 seconds. (Reduces extra power given to sub-system from skill bonus, if Skill bonus goes into the negative from this de-buff, power is subtracted from the sub-system accordingly)

Now instead using this ability to complement Science Power drain-builds, I have opened up the viability of this Bridge Officer Ability to other classes beyond just the Science Vessel because the science de-buffs on Starship Shield Emitters, and Starship Shield Performance will affect the heal abilities. Also, indirectly the hit on Starship Shield Performance might even constitute a small power drain on the sub-system if the de-buff places the skill bonus into the negative. So why does this change make the Beam Target Ability more viable? Particularly with the change to the Beam Target Shields, reducing any opponent’s ability to heal shields is useful regardless of what ship class you are flying.

Take for example an Escort, imagine if you will an Escort does a hit and run on a cruiser… but this time on the run the Escort uses one of his/her useless Ensign Tactical Bridge Officers and an aft beam array to target the enemy vessels shields; thereby on his/her next pass the enemy won’t be able to heal his/her shields quite as much or as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-04-2012, 10:51 AM
Why not just change the BTSS abilities straight debuffs?

Target shields, do slightly boosted damage to shields and reduce the targets shield resistences.
Target engines, reduce there speed and turn rate.
Target weapons, reduce there accuracy or rof, maybe abit of both.
Target aux, counters RSP, possibly a buff eating ability. Not really sure its abit of a toughy with how "multifaceted" aux is.

Have there effects last longer with higher AUX or something, to help reinforce there science slant.

Have there be a nice visible graphic for the debuffs, right now the BTSS skills don't show much unless you proc a full disable like "oops there went a shield facing" or something like that.
I'll reference how the attack patterns apply there little target reticule thing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
06-04-2012, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelev
Why not just change the BTSS abilities straight debuffs?

Target shields, do slightly boosted damage to shields and reduce the targets shield resistences.
Target engines, reduce there speed and turn rate.
Target weapons, reduce there accuracy or rof, maybe abit of both.
Target aux, counters RSP, possibly a buff eating ability. Not really sure its abit of a toughy with how "multifaceted" aux is.

Have there effects last longer with higher AUX or something, to help reinforce there science slant.

Have there be a nice visible graphic for the debuffs, right now the BTSS skills don't show much unless you proc a full disable like "oops there went a shield facing" or something like that.
I'll reference how the attack patterns apply there little target reticule thing.
While even more simplified than what I came up with… isn’t what you’re saying exactly what I did? I mean, I re-worked the ability to apply specific strait forward de-buffs!

I totally agree! I really wish there were some AWESOME VFX results when using these abilities. For example: maybe have the engines electrify and spark when BTE is used, or the weapons spark from BTW or the lights on your ship dim or go out when auxiliary is hit or gaps show up in the Shield FX when the emitters are hit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-04-2012, 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleon View Post
strait forward
LOL!

Ok well joke aside it wasn't very straight forward, it was reduce this by this %, this other thing by another percent, oh and by the way have a % chance to disable.

You just need it simple.
BTE1 reduce turn/movement rate by 30%
BTE2 reduce turn/movement rate by 50%
BTE3 reduce turn/movement rate by 80%

We don't need fancy reduce 4 different things by varying percentages, with a proc chance to disable, and all this jazz.

Keep it simple, effective, and to the point. The largest issue with the game from a noobs point of view is we have 5+ different things effecting shields in some way... I mean sure its trek to talk about shield emitters and crap but darn it all we need more just straight up "this does this, by X amount" kinda stuff.
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