Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Average DPS - STF Related
06-05-2012, 07:26 AM
Concerning STF's:

Overall, I've done about 70-80 Cure/Infected Space STF's on normal difficulty. As I have progressed, I have upgraded all of my weapons to Mk XI [Borg] and a 2 pc Borg/2 pc KHG Mk X set.

I've recently started parsing during the sessions to get an idea of where I sit DPS-wise. On moderate length fights, I am pushing 4-5k DPS on a good run, and just around 3k when I do stupid things or am slow to react.

With all the gently carressing love I have read about noobs getting into E-STF's unprepared and the great experiences the vets have had dealing with said noobs, I don't want to be "that guy" and gently carress an Optional.

I'm pretty sure my gear is good to go and my skill tree is pretty much fine tuned for what I do. I fly a BoP and use hit & run tactics, cloaking at every opportunity. I try to never stay in a fight any longer than I have to based on the cloak CD, and whether or not I have a good shot lined up with a torp spread on a down shield.

But... I could be flying it wrong and missing out on potential +dps. I'll know if I am flying it jacked up based on how others may respond in this thread dps-wise.

There's nothing really to compare it to aside from the other guys doing the N-STF's and since they are doing normals too, it really isn't a great comparison for determining whether or not I could be a viable partner in an Elite version dps-wise.

Am I pushing at least the bare minimum DPS you would recommend to attend an E-STF (space)?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-05-2012, 11:22 AM
You've got the gear for it, you should be fine DPS wise. I would recommend going to stowiki and going through the walkthroughs for elite, since things are different. But the basics are:

Infected Space - Weaken all of the relays to about 10-15%, then kill them all at once. Then DPS down the transformer before the spheres get to you.

KA Space - Kill everything but the gates, weaken both gates to about 10%, then try to kill them simultaneously.

Cure Space - Don't kill the cubes until everything else is dead. Then pop the cubes.

If you're nervous start with Infected. It's the easiest of the three, and if it gets messed up it's still possible to recover, you just lose the optional; it's not really possible to lose outright. Cure can be brutal, and it's possible to spend a lot of time there then screw up and lose the whole mission.

If you're going to PuG don't sweat the loss of an optional. If you win the optional you have a 20% chance of getting something ONLY if something good drops. Winning gives you a 100% chance of 3 items, which are often something good.

ETA: If you're flying a BoP, think about picking a Sci BO in your LtC or Comm slot and getting a grav well 1. Grav well rocks in STFs, since they all have bad guys heading towards something that shouldn't have bad guys getting near.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-05-2012, 11:34 AM
If your bare-minimum is at least 2k, and dying is only a rarity caused by something you recognize as a dumb mistake, you'll be fine in Elites. The only change is that with the high hull of most-targets in Elites you don't have time for hit-and-run because you ought to be hitting constantly to finish in time, but thats just a minor thing. 'Noob' complaints are more about bad tactics and not listening to chat anyways, but from what you've written I think you'll be okay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-05-2012, 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacillix
Concerning STF's:

Overall, I've done about 70-80 Cure/Infected Space STF's on normal difficulty. As I have progressed, I have upgraded all of my weapons to Mk XI [Borg] and a 2 pc Borg/2 pc KHG Mk X set.
Good start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bacillix
I've recently started parsing during the sessions to get an idea of where I sit DPS-wise. On moderate length fights, I am pushing 4-5k DPS on a good run, and just around 3k when I do stupid things or am slow to react.
Which parser are you using?

The different parsers in use currently vary widely between them; the most important part will be (eventually) to compare yourself to others.

Relative overall DPS in comparison to other similar type ships is more important than the numbers the parsers will give you.


Itís also a meaningless number if we do not know what your BOFF layout and Ship Captain are.

A Good Engineer in a well played defiant for example, is still going to be far outclassed by a Tactical Captain in a Defiant in DPS.

Is your BOFF a pure Tac focused (Commander & Lt Commander slots Tactical) ship?

Are you using a lot of AoEs or all Single Target? A single target will technically have better DPS vs. the big single targets like cubes Ė but the parser will never tell you this.

The guy with multiple AoE attacks will do less DPS against the big targets, but the parser will record him on top because of his overall output.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bacillix
With all the gently carressing love I have read about noobs getting into E-STF's unprepared and the great experiences the vets have had dealing with said noobs, I don't want to be "that guy" and gently carress an Optional.
Then you want to read this thread: http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=250898

Quote:
Originally Posted by bacillix
I'm pretty sure my gear is good to go and my skill tree is pretty much fine tuned for what I do. I fly a BoP and use hit & run tactics, cloaking at every opportunity. I try to never stay in a fight any longer than I have to based on the cloak CD, and whether or not I have a good shot lined up with a torp spread on a down shield.
This is basically a waste of time on Elite STFs.

Cloaking can, and will get you killed. All it takes is a torpedo you didnít notice to have been fired upon you Ė or one that is fired even though you are cloaked. Itís OK for the occasional damage burst, but you are generally better off staying on target and avoiding aggro.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-05-2012, 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginaMala View Post
The only change is that with the high hull of most-targets in Elites you don't have time for hit-and-run because you ought to be hitting constantly to finish in time
Got ya. Makes sense. Kill faster by maintaining near constant rounds on target.

Hmm. Maybe to utilze the cloak bonus to dps I could just cycle it, rather than cloaking > extending > realigning > decloaking > unleash.

Stay in the fight, but power cycle the cloak. I'll test that theory.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-07-2012, 05:27 PM
High DPS is good and all but imo in the end of the day what matter the most is staying alive and dealing out consistent damage on target to kill it: If your dead you not doing damage and not increasing your dps.

even with my oddy and botas'que build im in the 3-4k range from my last few run checks against my team.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-08-2012, 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xth3xr34p3rx View Post
High DPS is good and all but imo in the end of the day what matter the most is staying alive and dealing out consistent damage on target to kill it: If your dead you not doing damage and not increasing your dps.

even with my oddy and botas'que build im in the 3-4k range from my last few run checks against my team.
As I mentioned upthread, due to the different parsing programs available - what is more important is your relative DPS to the rest of the team, as well as tracking that DPS over time for consistency.


I know people love being able to give out a number, but unfortunately some programs might be over or under-stating DPS scores.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-16-2012, 03:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacillix
Concerning STF's:

Overall, I've done about 70-80 Cure/Infected Space STF's on normal difficulty. As I have progressed, I have upgraded all of my weapons to Mk XI [Borg] and a 2 pc Borg/2 pc KHG Mk X set.

I've recently started parsing during the sessions to get an idea of where I sit DPS-wise. On moderate length fights, I am pushing 4-5k DPS on a good run, and just around 3k when I do stupid things or am slow to react.

With all the gently carressing love I have read about noobs getting into E-STF's unprepared and the great experiences the vets have had dealing with said noobs, I don't want to be "that guy" and gently carress an Optional.

I'm pretty sure my gear is good to go and my skill tree is pretty much fine tuned for what I do. I fly a BoP and use hit & run tactics, cloaking at every opportunity. I try to never stay in a fight any longer than I have to based on the cloak CD, and whether or not I have a good shot lined up with a torp spread on a down shield.

But... I could be flying it wrong and missing out on potential +dps. I'll know if I am flying it jacked up based on how others may respond in this thread dps-wise.

There's nothing really to compare it to aside from the other guys doing the N-STF's and since they are doing normals too, it really isn't a great comparison for determining whether or not I could be a viable partner in an Elite version dps-wise.

Am I pushing at least the bare minimum DPS you would recommend to attend an E-STF (space)?
As long as you know 10% rule and you do have mkXI gear,you can start doing elites.
STF ELITES are all about 10% rule,if you know that nobody will bash you or call you a noob.
And 10% rule is what Caelras told you earlier.
Problem with noobs is that they don't listen to what others say and have team chat turned off or what is worse they don't know basic english and use translators when playing elite stf.
Thats why vets are always ****ed on them,and i can understand them.

Overall you should be fine
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-16-2012, 11:05 PM
For what it's worth I've never really gotten anything worth having from the optional besides a few extra Prototype Salvage or EDC. I'm not saying go into public queues and intentionally slouch off, but I think people stress out over the optional way more than the facts justify.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-18-2012, 03:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelras View Post
ETA: If you're flying a BoP, think about picking a Sci BO in your LtC or Comm slot and getting a grav well 1. Grav well rocks in STFs, since they all have bad guys heading towards something that shouldn't have bad guys getting near.
This is very true. Grav well is pretty much the only reason why I ever bother to take my pure-sci ships into Elite STFs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless
For what it's worth I've never really gotten anything worth having from the optional besides a few extra Prototype Salvage or EDC. I'm not saying go into public queues and intentionally slouch off, but I think people stress out over the optional way more than the facts justify.
This is also true. Be prepared for QQ if it's missed, but you don't actually lose anything of value. After a couple of weeks your bank will be full of proto salvage and EDCs anyways. The Special Reserve drops come only from the final loot and the optional has no effect on that whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
I know people love being able to give out a number, but unfortunately some programs might be over or under-stating DPS scores.
Cryptic's combatlog doesn't give enuff information about who did what to properly attribute the um credit...properly.

Putting Attack Pattern Beta, Sensor Scan, etc on a target boosts everybody's damage significantly, yet the person who used that power gains the same as everybody else.

High raw DPS isn't the same as effective group DPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolic
As long as you know 10% rule and you do have mkXI gear,you can start doing elites.
STF ELITES are all about 10% rule,if you know that nobody will bash you or call you a noob.
And 10% rule is what Caelras told you earlier.
Mk XI is unnecessary, especially for escorts (hello overpowered lil ships~). I did some runs with common plasma X stuffs on a DHC/DC escort (to disprove that 'borgs are resistant to plasma' myth) and my DPS only fell a lil bit. Damage mostly comes from the mk0 class of weapon, plus all the ridiculous, overpowered cannon buffs that tactical boffs can make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolic
Problem with noobs is that they don't listen to what others say and have team chat turned off or what is worse they don't know basic english and use translators when playing elite stf.
Thats why vets are always ****ed on them,and i can understand them.
Yes, teamwork is essential in elite STFs. I'd rather go in with a bunch of science ships wielding rainbow common mk IX lightshows who know what they're doing and are working together than a bunch of 1/2 billion EC purple XII escorts who don't/won't.
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