Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
06-17-2012, 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
A Purple PWO DOFF is a 5s reduction. Each DOFF is only worth a 20% chance, hence two DOFFs are worth 20% x 2, three DOFFs are worth 20%x3 meaning they could both proc or only one could proc.

I have no idea where you got this 50% chance per DOFF nonsense.

6 - 5 = 1 = Photons
8 - 5 = 3 = Quantum, Plasma, RF Transphasic
10 - 5 = 5 = Chroniton, Transphasic

2 DOFFs use 2 Photons
3 DOFFs use 2 Quantums
50% was a mistake but my point stills stands with two torpedoes that 6 trigger chances or 9 trigger chances with 3 torpedoes. You only need 1 trigger for the first torpedo to shoot at max speed with two launchers. For example let’s say the first torpedo fires and you are unlucky no triggers. After 1.5 sec the 2nd torpedo fires and chances are after 6 chances of triggers at least 1 trigger will have happened putting the first Quantum torpedo back down to max fire rate. You now have to wait 1.5 sec before firing the next torpedo so with 1 trigger the first and 2nd torpedo are both now ready to fire again at max speed giveing you another 6 chances for 1 more trigger.

More often than not you will be firing faster and doing more dps with Quantum over Photon. Even with just 2 doffs when you have 2 torpedo launches I would go Quantum over Photon the only time photon are worth it is with 1 launcher or 1 doff or perhaps 2 launches and 1 doff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
06-17-2012, 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsey
50% was a mistake but my point stills stands with two torpedoes that 6 trigger chances or 9 trigger chances with 3 torpedoes. You only need 1 trigger for the first torpedo to shoot at max speed with two launchers. For example let’s say the first torpedo fires and you are unlucky no triggers. After 1.5 sec the 2nd torpedo fires and chances are after 6 chances of triggers at least 1 trigger will have happened putting the first Quantum torpedo back down to max fire rate. You now have to wait 1.5 sec before firing the next torpedo so with 1 trigger the first and 2nd torpedo are both now ready to fire again at max speed giveing you another 6 chances for 1 more trigger.

More often than not you will be firing faster and doing more dps with Quantum over Photon. Even with just 2 doffs when you have 2 torpedo launches I would go Quantum over Photon the only time photon are worth it is with 1 launcher or 1 doff or perhaps 2 launches and 1 doff.
I was correcting your maths not your logic. My final words where If you use 3 DOFF use Quantums.

Although with only 2 DOFFs I would prefer to play it safe with Photons. As for a three or four Torpedo build I'd definitely run 3 DOFFs but I'd run 2 Quantums, and maybe a Tricobalt and a Hargh'Peng. The Quantums are to speed up the Trico and Hargh'Peng rounds.

One thing I don't understand is you mention 10s Torpedoes having the most damage when it's the Quantums on the 8s cooldown that do, was that an error or where you implying something I may have missed?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
06-17-2012, 08:49 PM
If I use two torpedo tubes with three PWO I still get the occassional pause in firing because no PWO procs have occured. Yes, I know that statistically this shouldn't be too common, but life is always stranger than fiction, so I run with 3 tubes up front.

To complement them I use tetryon dual beam banks. Yes, cannons do more damage, but it's not earth-shatteringly greater, plus you can target shields with a beam bank. Also, the firing arc of the dual beam bank matches that of the torpedo tubes. Call me OCD, but I like that synergy...

When using a torpedo boat, I find advanced delta flyers to be far more useful. Yes, danubes are awesome for the Armitage, but the shield stripping that the deltas do makes the kills seem to come that little bit quicker.

I'm still trying to resolve the quantum vs photon argument in my head. I know that running with three quantums with three PWOs should result in exactly the same firing rate as photons. Logically that would dictate that the quantums would do more damage. I think we're all missing something that needs to be considered, however, and that's the tactical consoles.

If you load four zero point quantum chambers you'll get awesome bang for your buck on the quantums, but there'll be no improvement on the torperdo point defence system. If you load four photon detonation assemblies you still won't get your photons up to quantum damage, but your torpedo point defence system will be greatly enhanced.

I'm not gifted with numbers, but can someone who is determine whether the additional damage meted out by the torpedo point defence system charged by four photon detonation assemblies makes up for the shortfall of photons vs quantums? I know that the recharge is slow on the console, but it throws our so many torpedos!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
06-17-2012, 11:32 PM
Okay, let's say I wanted to build a torp boat. Slightly off topic 'cause I'm gonna try it in my Defiant-R. 3 Purple PWOs, 2 quantums, 2 DHCs. What about consoles? 2 for DHCs and 2 for the quantums? Or straight quantum consoles?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
06-17-2012, 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darramouss View Post
If I use two torpedo tubes with three PWO I still get the occassional pause in firing because no PWO procs have occured. Yes, I know that statistically this shouldn't be too common, but life is always stranger than fiction, so I run with 3 tubes up front.

To complement them I use tetryon dual beam banks. Yes, cannons do more damage, but it's not earth-shatteringly greater, plus you can target shields with a beam bank. Also, the firing arc of the dual beam bank matches that of the torpedo tubes. Call me OCD, but I like that synergy...

I'm still trying to resolve the quantum vs photon argument in my head. I know that running with three quantums with three PWOs should result in exactly the same firing rate as photons. Logically that would dictate that the quantums would do more damage. I think we're all missing something that needs to be considered, however, and that's the tactical consoles.

If you load four zero point quantum chambers you'll get awesome bang for your buck on the quantums, but there'll be no improvement on the torperdo point defence system. If you load four photon detonation assemblies you still won't get your photons up to quantum damage, but your torpedo point defence system will be greatly enhanced.
Even running 5 DOFFs it doesn't become 100% it becomes 5 x 20%. This Analogy is flawed because a six sided dice isn't a 20% chance per face but. Roll 5 Dice, every time 6 comes up you get a proc. It is possible to roll all the dice and not get a proc and it's possible to roll 2 dice and get 2 procs.

Hence 3 DOFFs your going to get fewer pauses with 2 Quantums because you get 6 goes and it's a 1 in 5 chance. With 2 DOFFs the speed could be an issue so use Photons.

I wonder if Pottsey is considering the Console? Much like the Garumba and Dreadnought are mainly used with the one energy type perhaps users of this console will use the one torpedo type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bringram View Post
Okay, let's say I wanted to build a torp boat. Slightly off topic 'cause I'm gonna try it in my Defiant-R. 3 Purple PWOs, 2 quantums, 2 DHCs. What about consoles? 2 for DHCs and 2 for the quantums? Or straight quantum consoles?
I was under the impression 4 Zero Points didn't stack due to a bug, has this been fixed? That being said I wouldn't give up all my Energy boosts for Torpedoes, two of each should be enough.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
06-18-2012, 12:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
I was under the impression 4 Zero Points didn't stack due to a bug, has this been fixed? That being said I wouldn't give up all my Energy boosts for Torpedoes, two of each should be enough.
I do not recall when it got fixed but I am 100% sure it is fixed. I did some torpdeo testing over the weekend.




Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
I was correcting your maths not your logic. My final words where If you use 3 DOFF use Quantums.

Although with only 2 DOFFs I would prefer to play it safe with Photons. As for a three or four Torpedo build I'd definitely run 3 DOFFs but I'd run 2 Quantums, and maybe a Tricobalt and a Hargh'Peng. The Quantums are to speed up the Trico and Hargh'Peng rounds.

One thing I don't understand is you mention 10s Torpedoes having the most damage when it's the Quantums on the 8s cooldown that do, was that an error or where you implying something I may have missed?
Thanks for you correcting me I hate posting wrong info. You didn’t miss anything, I just did not explain my post very well. Some torpedoes like/only Transphasic come in 10sec fire rates and rapid fire 8sec fire rates but less damage per hit so you are better off choosing the slower harder hitting ones. With the upcoming changes the sustained damage of Transphasic should be higher than Quantum’s, well at least against shields. On my test targets Quantum’s took off 2% hull with shields up, Transphasic 4% and with the upcoming tribble server changes Transphasic took off 8%. Of course with shields down Quantum’s win out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darramouss View Post
If you load four zero point quantum chambers you'll get awesome bang for your buck on the quantums, but there'll be no improvement on the torperdo point defence system. If you load four photon detonation assemblies you still won't get your photons up to quantum damage, but your torpedo point defence system will be greatly enhanced.

I'm not gifted with numbers, but can someone who is determine whether the additional damage meted out by the torpedo point defence system charged by four photon detonation assemblies makes up for the shortfall of photons vs quantums? I know that the recharge is slow on the console, but it throws our so many torpedos!!
You could try those 20% to all torpedo damage consoles. Not got time to check but I believe you still end up doing more damage with Quantums over photons and the torpedo point defence system gets a nice boost. This works even better if you use Tricobalt or Hargh'Peng into the mix.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
06-18-2012, 12:30 AM
I just tried KA space elite with 2 quantum torpedoes, 2 phaser dual heavy cannons, 2 phaser consoles & 2 quantum consoles. I don't have hard numbers but I'm pretty sure I saw a significant increase in DPS. It was one of the fastest runs I've ever done.

I'd be real interested to find out whether or not it would be worth it to go with the generic torpedo console vs the quantum consoles. On the one had the generic console would boost the photon PDS. On the other hand the PDS has a what, 2-3 minute cooldown?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
06-18-2012, 01:34 AM
The main thing with torpedoes when trying to narrow down between photons and quantum's is what each of them do and based on how you want to play how they will play out. First thing to acknowledge is that quantums for the most part are less damage than photons as far as states and the amount of time it takes to fire a photon vs a quantum especially since you cannot always get the doffs to proc 100% of the time even if you max that out to 3. They both have their advantages but the deciding factor is that quantums are the fastest traveling torpedo so if you want to get torpedoes in before shielding can go back up you want the quantums but if you wan't to consistently fire at a decent rate/highest damage possible between the two then you would go with the photons.

Odds are as well even though I do not own an armitage I am assuming the damage modifier is photons and that they fire photons so the best bet would be imo to go photon to mesh all those together as far as stats are concerned as well as consistent torpedo burst damage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
06-18-2012, 02:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuxidemus
They both have their advantages but the deciding factor is that quantums are the fastest traveling torpedo so if you want to get torpedoes in before shielding can go back up you want the quantums but if you wan't to consistently fire at a decent rate/highest damage possible between the two then you would go with the photons.

Odds are as well even though I do not own an armitage I am assuming the damage modifier is photons and that they fire photons so the best bet would be imo to go photon to mesh all those together as far as stats are concerned as well as consistent torpedo burst damage.
That is mostly wrong if you want to consistently fire at a decent rate/highest damage possible you go for quantums with x3 Doff’s. The only time photons are worth it is if you skip or have limited doff’s.

An armitage with quantums, doff's and the defence torp item will give higher dps then an armitage with the same setup but Photons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
06-18-2012, 05:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsey
I do not recall when it got fixed but I am 100% sure it is fixed. I did some torpdeo testing over the weekend.

Some torpedoes like/only Transphasic come in 10sec fire rates and rapid fire 8sec fire rates but less damage per hit so you are better off choosing the slower harder hitting ones.
Good to know about the fix, and now that I understand what you mean with the Transphasics I'm in complete agreement with you. The Rapid Fire ones just aren't worth it IMO, maybe on a Shuttle with Torp Spread... Maybe.
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