Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
06-18-2012, 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bringram View Post
I just tried KA space elite with 2 quantum torpedoes, 2 phaser dual heavy cannons, 2 phaser consoles & 2 quantum consoles. I don't have hard numbers but I'm pretty sure I saw a significant increase in DPS. It was one of the fastest runs I've ever done.
If you don't have hard numbers then you don't have anything, and did not see anything.

Just because this run was faster than average, doesn't mean your one ship out of five ships was completely the deciding factor.


Maybe you had a handful of good players on the run, maybe you had someone wise enough to pack APB for the group.

Regardless, the only way to actually test your build is to run a combatlog and parse it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 32
06-18-2012, 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bringram View Post
Okay, let's say I wanted to build a torp boat. Slightly off topic 'cause I'm gonna try it in my Defiant-R. 3 Purple PWOs, 2 quantums, 2 DHCs. What about consoles? 2 for DHCs and 2 for the quantums? Or straight quantum consoles?
If I were you I would use DCs and Tetryon, not DHCs. More procs of shield stripping means torps land on hull more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
06-18-2012, 05:56 AM
Okay, I am going to update the first post with what I think is the most consistent information from this discussion.

As a note, I believe that using photons because of the console and the synergy with damage buffs is a mistake. Firstly, as someone else pointed out, you will still do more dmg with quantums even without buffing the console (3 min cooldown, doesn't add much). Secondly, the console is kinda junk, and I would advise using an extra field console (science) or neutronium (engineer) instead. You will live longer, and thus do more DPS .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Here is a quote of Cygone and the Torpedo tests he performed back in mid April. These were done for his intrepid torp boat (fantastic build btw - http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=265786), but discuss the same question: "Quantum vs. Photon vs. Rapid Reload Transphasic, which is best?"

Food for thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cygone View Post
I do, I did the tests myself,

Dont use 3 PWD, its not worth it, I did the tests earlier in the week, (copyied out of my other thread)

A Few figues, I will update this post as I get more,

2 Photon Launchers - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 111 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***111 / 300***
3 Photon Launchers - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 147 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***147 / 300***
2 Photon Launchers - 2 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 126 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***126 / 300***
3 Photon Launchers - 2 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 148 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***148 / 300***

2 Quantum Launchers - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 104 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***104 / 300***
3 Qunatum Launchers - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 131 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***131 / 300***
2 Quantum Launchers - 2 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 111 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***111 / 300***
3 Quantum Launchers - 2 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 137 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***137 / 300***

3 Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedos - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 140 Torpedos in 300 Seconds ***140/300***
3 Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedos - 2 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 147 Torpedos in 300 Seconds ***147/300***

I can't use 3 Doffs, because I am using 2xDevelopment Lab Scientists and 1xTractor Specialist, this means I can only use 2 Projectile Weapon Doffs, so Photons are the better options for DPS. Frankly, I dont think I would want to use another Doff slot just to ekk out that smidgen of DPS from 3Q/3D

Tests were done in a 1v1 PvP situation, torps were set to autofire, no THY or TS used, parser counted the shots and the time elapsed.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 35
06-18-2012, 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javienn View Post
Here is a quote of Cygone and the Torpedo tests he performed back in mid April. These were done for his intrepid torp boat (fantastic build btw - http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=265786), but discuss the same question: "Quantum vs. Photon vs. Rapid Reload Transphasic, which is best?"

Food for thought.
I find his conclusions really strange. He has just proven Quantum Launchers out damage photons and goes on to say photons are better? Why has he said that? The test shows Quantum’s win out on damage and DPS even with only 2 doffs and one is blue. It also seems that with 2 launchers the cap is 111torpdeos. I bet if he upgraded that blue doff to purple then his Quantum launcher would have pulled even further ahead in DPS over photons.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 36
06-18-2012, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
If you don't have hard numbers then you don't have anything, and did not see anything.

Just because this run was faster than average, doesn't mean your one ship out of five ships was completely the deciding factor.


Maybe you had a handful of good players on the run, maybe you had someone wise enough to pack APB for the group.

Regardless, the only way to actually test your build is to run a combatlog and parse it.
True. I posted my initial reaction. I didn't have time to monkey with a parser last night. It will probably be a week before I can. What I'm getting at is that, based on limited results, it's worth looking into. I thought I'd done it to death and deleted the parser I was using. But, I may play with it a little.
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# 37
06-18-2012, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsey
I find his conclusions really strange. He has just proven Quantum Launchers out damage photons and goes on to say photons are better? Why has he said that? The test shows Quantum’s win out on damage and DPS even with only 2 doffs and one is blue. It also seems that with 2 launchers the cap is 111torpdeos. I bet if he upgraded that blue doff to purple then his Quantum launcher would have pulled even further ahead in DPS over photons.
His question was exploring a 3 Torp Launcher boat, but yes, his data shows that at 2 launchers, Quantums perform better. This is all rough math, so I apologize if I made any poor assumptions / errors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cygone
2 Photon Launchers - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 111 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***111 / 300***
2 Quantum Launchers - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 104 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***104 / 300***
I believe the two above lines are what you are referring too. Exploring which is greater:

111 Photons vs. 104 Quantums

Taking a quick look at the STOWiki shows that a common MKII Quantum does 3313 damage per volley, where as a Photon does 2980.

104 Quantums, all hitting hull would be 344,552
111 Photons, all hitting hull would be 330,780

Based on this, for 2 launchers, with 2 Doffs, Quantums are ahead of the Photons by ~4.2%.

Now, if we look at 3 Torps w/ 2 DOffs:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cygone
3 Photon Launchers - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 147 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***147 / 300***
3 Qunatum Launchers - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 131 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***131 / 300***
147 Photons vs. 131 Quantums

131 Quantums, all hitting hull would be 434,003
147 Photons, all hitting hull would be 438,060

Photons are now ahead of Quantums by a marginal ~1%.
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# 38
06-18-2012, 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javienn View Post
147 Photons vs. 131 Quantums

131 Quantums, all hitting hull would be 434,003
147 Photons, all hitting hull would be 438,060

Photons are now ahead of Quantums by a marginal ~1%.
The way I read the data is when you get unlucky and fail to hit the max fire rate Quantum’s are within 1% of Photons. But when the triggers work and you hit the cap Quantum’s overtake Photons. If you look at Rapid fire Transphasic which are effectively Quantum’s being 8sec torpedoes you see they hit the cap almost. That means Quantums can hit that cap as well just not every single time with blue doff’s.

So Quantum’s are within Photons damage range but often Quantum’s overtake photons in DPS. More reason to go with Quantum’s was that’s tested with blue Doff’s. One would expect with purple Doff’s Quantum’s would more often than not hit the cap and be ahead of Photons which have no room for faster fireing.

The above is assuming 111 torpedoes is about the cap for 2 launchers, 148 is about the cap for 3 launchers. I know from experience the 4th launcher pretty much always fails to fires to when capped out on speed. (EDIT2: You can only fire 1 torpedo every 2 seconds so 147 is the cap over 300seconds.)

EDIT; To clarify it looks like with looks like 3 Photons launchers shoot 147 torpedoes. Quantum will shoot somewhere around 131 to 147 torpedoes depending on chance triggers. But if you upgrade fully to purple DOffs you should pretty much see Quantum always at the cap at 147.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 39
06-18-2012, 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsey
The way I read the data is when you get unlucky and fail to hit the max fire rate Quantum’s are within 1% of Photons. But when the triggers work and you hit the cap Quantum’s overtake Photons. If you look at Rapid fire Transphasic which are effectively Quantum’s being 8sec torpedoes you see they hit the cap almost. That means Quantums can hit that cap as well just not every single time with blue doff’s.

So Quantum’s are within Photons damage range but often Quantum’s overtake photons in DPS. More reason to go with Quantum’s was that’s tested with blue Doff’s. One would expect with purple Doff’s Quantum’s would more often than not hit the cap and be ahead of Photons which have no room for faster fireing.

The above is assuming 111 torpedoes is about the cap for 2 launchers, 148 is about the cap for 3 launchers. I know from experience the 4th launcher pretty much always fails to fires to when capped out on speed. (EDIT2: You can only fire 1 torpedo every 2 seconds so 147 is the cap over 300seconds.)

EDIT; To clarify it looks like with looks like 3 Photons launchers shoot 147 torpedoes. Quantum will shoot somewhere around 131 to 147 torpedoes depending on chance triggers. But if you upgrade fully to purple DOffs you should pretty much see Quantum always at the cap at 147.
Now here's my question:

Cygone's build is designed around shield stripping, with the goal of getting to the bare hull faster - and to that effect he is limited to 2 PWOs to keep the rest of the build functioning.

That build is very specifically a Sci ship - so how can we make this passable/viable for an STF focused escort?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
06-18-2012, 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
Now here's my question:

Cygone's build is designed around shield stripping, with the goal of getting to the bare hull faster - and to that effect he is limited to 2 PWOs to keep the rest of the build functioning.

That build is very specifically a Sci ship - so how can we make this passable/viable for an STF focused escort?
2x DCs and 3xTurrets, tetryon, put skill points into flow capacitors, use the armitage and use advanced delta flyers, run 2x quantums with 3 purple doffs.
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