Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 115
# 21
06-21-2012, 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayezilla View Post
Hmmm, I appear to have been misinformed. However you will find that the phaser proc increases TTK only as long as the enemy has shields, putting it squarely in the same category as tetryon weapons and polaron for STFs. These weapons have a minimal TTK effect.

Disruptors and antiproton have the largest ttk effect in pve, mathematically, but it isn't only about time to kill. I accept that phaser weapons are usable in pve. Thank you for the enlightening conversation.
Please provide facts of these statements.

Weapons are the same, save for Anti-proton which gets a small crit spike, but in truth unless you SPEC/BUILD to that, as with any weapon system you do not get the full advantage of it. You can make any weapon system eat through a hull quickly if you spec into it properly.

No one weapon is better then the next currently if any ship losses it shields and you are hitting a bare hull in pve or in pvp, save for plasma which the borg have a natural 15% resistance to, if the captain of that ship has done their homework and has all the proper skills. If you loose your shields, especially in pvp, you probably will not last but seconds.

The phaser proc still works on vessels without shields, shutting down engines, weapons, and auxillary which directly affects healing and recovery powers. Reviewing logs from last night STF run on the MourneBlade, the phaser proc was still activating on the elite cube, with shields down.

I got off the phone with my friend who ran some STF with me last night. My damage vs my friend who runs anti-proton in the very same exact settings, weapons and type (Mk XII) and ship I have actually was out-damaged by me by 12,345 points in the ISE. The next STF instance we run, he out-damaged me 10,985 points CSE. He did not run the KASE with me so there is no comparison.

Last edited by bludagger; 06-21-2012 at 07:27 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 113
# 22
06-21-2012, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicwuff View Post
I want to know where you people are getting the math to back up the idea that the AP weapons are better than phaser. The STF ones, apart from the phaser proc, are identical in every way.
Yep, that even goes for all the STF weapons. Some good advice is to just pick the ones you like the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albinoeatpod View Post
I've seen the phaser proc activate on STFs as recently as yesterday, so they definitely do work.
Yes same here, I have almost always used phasers in STFs :biggrin:

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicwuff View Post
And you show no math to back up this assertion.

The ONLY difference between photon and AP (because I'm looking at them right this second)
Photon 10% crit damage bonus
AP 30 crit damage bonus
Dont see where you are going with this, photons? If you mean phaser and anti protons yes one has better critical but criticals are just as good as the other proc's in my opinion.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 27
# 23
06-21-2012, 10:37 AM
I have question regarding the OP's torp layout, as I seldom use more than one torp launcher unless one is fore and the other aft: if multiple launchers of the same type are placed together, they share a CD and will only fire one at a time, correct? So isn't it more advantageous to use different types such as a quantum and a photon?
Cleverly disguised as myself - Helmsmn2
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 139
# 24
06-21-2012, 10:57 AM
Perhaps I'm assuming that you are all more informed than you are. Let me get a few background facts down:

Phaser: 2.5% chance to disable a random subsystem
Disruptor: 2.5% chance to lower the targets hull damage resistance by 10% for 15 sec
Plasma: 2.5% chance to apply a non-stacking damage-over-time debuff
Polaron: 2.5% chance to reduce all enemy subsystem power levels by 25
Tetryon: 2.5% chance to deal additional shield damage
Antiproton: 20% increased critical severity

These can be roughly grouped into two kinds of weapons:

Weapons that affect shield and/or weapon systems: Tetryon, Polaron, Phaser.

Weapons that increase hull damage: Antiproton, Disruptor, Plasma.

Are we all in agreement so far? So, to continue a little further, there are three primary kinds of combat that we can currently engage in: PVP, STF PVE and non STF PVE. I'm going to discard non-stf PVE as a consideration because it is trivial at level cap.

So here is my assumption: In PVP, the first weapon category (shield/weapon system affecting weapons) are the optimal weapons, with the second category(barring Plasma weapons) being very close behind.

In PVE, the second category (barring Plasma weapons) is optimal for the lowest Time To Kill, specifically because the majority of borg damage is Hull damage.

Now don't get me wrong, the shield/weapon systems category 'can' still be used effectively in STFs. The 2.5% phaser and polaron proc will reduce incoming damage and help kill the enemy shields. If reducing incoming damage is what you want to do, by all means use the phaser/polaron weapons. However, from a Time To Kill perspective in STF PVE, the anti shield/weapon system weapons are a few percentage points worse than Antiproton and Disruptor weapons.

Last edited by rayezilla; 06-21-2012 at 10:59 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 25
06-21-2012, 10:57 AM
Not really no. I'll use my Armitage class as an example, I run 2 DCs and 2 Photons in the front. When the first fires, there is a global cooldown of 2 seconds, this is for all torpedoes. Meaning that after the first one fires, 2 seconds later the second will fire.

Photons have a 6 second cooldown without doff assistance. Using 3 purple torpedo doffs, your chances of that first launcher going from 6 seconds to 2 seconds is pretty decent. Purple doffs can sheer 5 seconds off of your torpedo cooldown time, meaning it comes down to 1 second for a photon to fire. But since there is a global cooldown, you can only hit the 2 second mark.

You can mix and match these, but there's no reason you can't use the same torpedo type. Tactical consoles that increase torpedo damage though will dictate that you should use the same type anyways.

Last edited by daiouvegeta2; 06-21-2012 at 11:02 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 27
# 26
06-21-2012, 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daiouvegeta2 View Post
Not really no. I'll use my Armitage class as an example, I run 2 DCs and 2 Photons in the front. When the first fires, there is a global cooldown of 2 seconds, this is for all torpedoes. Meaning that after the first one fires, 2 seconds later the second will fire.

Photons have a 6 second cooldown without doff assistance. Using 3 purple torpedo doffs, your chances of that first launcher going from 6 seconds to 2 seconds is pretty decent. Purple doffs can sheer 5 seconds off of your torpedo cooldown time, meaning it comes down to 1 second for a photon to fire. But since there is a global cooldown, you can only hit the 2 second mark.
So you use photons... I never really considered that because they always have lower yield, but I imagine that the combination of doff enhancement AND the lower CD offsets the difference. I may have to try that - once I manage to get some purple doffs. Thanks for the input. :smile:
Cleverly disguised as myself - Helmsmn2
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 115
# 27
06-22-2012, 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayezilla View Post
Perhaps I'm assuming that you are all more informed than you are. Let me get a few background facts down:

Phaser: 2.5% chance to disable a random subsystem
Disruptor: 2.5% chance to lower the targets hull damage resistance by 10% for 15 sec
Plasma: 2.5% chance to apply a non-stacking damage-over-time debuff
Polaron: 2.5% chance to reduce all enemy subsystem power levels by 25
Tetryon: 2.5% chance to deal additional shield damage
Antiproton: 20% increased critical severity

These can be roughly grouped into two kinds of weapons:

Weapons that affect shield and/or weapon systems: Tetryon, Polaron, Phaser.

Weapons that increase hull damage: Antiproton, Disruptor, Plasma.

Are we all in agreement so far? So, to continue a little further, there are three primary kinds of combat that we can currently engage in: PVP, STF PVE and non STF PVE. I'm going to discard non-stf PVE as a consideration because it is trivial at level cap.

So here is my assumption: In PVP, the first weapon category (shield/weapon system affecting weapons) are the optimal weapons, with the second category(barring Plasma weapons) being very close behind.

In PVE, the second category (barring Plasma weapons) is optimal for the lowest Time To Kill, specifically because the majority of borg damage is Hull damage.

Now don't get me wrong, the shield/weapon systems category 'can' still be used effectively in STFs. The 2.5% phaser and polaron proc will reduce incoming damage and help kill the enemy shields. If reducing incoming damage is what you want to do, by all means use the phaser/polaron weapons. However, from a Time To Kill perspective in STF PVE, the anti shield/weapon system weapons are a few percentage points worse than Antiproton and Disruptor weapons.
We are informed just fine, thanks.:tongue: You "assume" a great deal.
You are definitely a bit uninformed, not understanding of the end game data that is being provided and condescending when you speak to others with some of your opening lines. Perhaps you would be better received by again providing in game data and not hypothetical "if's" based on what a stat on a weapon is, vs to what it "actually" does in game by taking in the raw data that many of us use which shows true after effects when all the variables are taken into account.
Many folks, myself included have been doing this game since closed beta and we have mountains of data to look over. We test new things that come out in ways most never even conceive of attempting and we compare notes and data.

Weapon that affect shield is only Tetryon. Polaron affect power settings regardless of shields, Disruptors/Plasma affect hull regardless of shields, Phasers affect sub-systems regardless of shields, Anti-proton is just plain raw damage to everything shields and hull. There is just no 2 specific things for weapons as a whole. It is not a hypothetical thing. It is a set hard data that is effect by a large set of in game variables.

It is clear you really do not know how the game really is functioning. Consider this the last participation of our conversation on my part. Have a good day neighbor.
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 27
# 28
02-03-2013, 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicwuff View Post
Yeah, also considering that nowhere have I read that the phaser proc isn't supposed to work on borg. I'd like to know where these people are getting this idea.
its not that the phasers dont work on the borg its that they fix the sub system almost right after so you dont see any difrence they fix it WAY to fast for it to benifit you in anyway
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 29
02-03-2013, 11:41 AM
Please don't necro threads, especially ones with builds this bad. Seriously, two rear torps on an Ody without saucer sep, with only 4 broadsiding arrays and no EPtS chain? WHY!? It would be bad on any cruiser, but an Ody is pure tank and no maneuverability, so it's at its weakest on that.
Ensign
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3
# 30 Looking for help
03-25-2013, 06:08 AM
I've read this post and a couple others but I've decided to ask this question here because there seems to be some knowledgable people contributing to the thread. Please don't crucify me for the question as this is all relatively new to me. I spec'd into a tactical officer and I think I'm ok as far as my tach build I focused mostly on shield/hull protection and regen and energy weapons. I am using a "bug" assault craft that I was lucky enough to get Forman officer pack and it is better than anything else I have at the moment. My question is this. I don't do pvp at all and don't plan to. I'm not in a fleet so I don't know how much load out in fleet ops matters. All I do is pugs for reg and elite missions and regular dailies. What kind of weapons, consoles, etc etc should I use for my current play style? I've also started the omega quest line but am curious as to which space equipment to build. Borg,Maco or Omega. I've tried to provide as much info as I can. Any help or suggestions will be appreciated. Feel free to dumb it down for me aswell as many of the terms and abbrv are new to me. Again, thanks.
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