Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 190
# 21
06-26-2012, 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyhappyj0yj0y View Post
Yeah, there's two big problem right there.

Escorts are faster and don't even bother to wait. And often times a Cruiser will want to get it's power levels back up, and some folks don't want to wait for that either (most captains don't want to have to rush in with their power levels ridding the gutter, especially when they're expected to be the target).

And yeah, no one bothers to organize and so few people play well together. Thus a lot of Cruiser folks will also wait because they've gotten tired of running headlong into the fray only for the Escorts to ignore them and head after other targets, leaving the Cruiser to get swarmed and die. So you pull up, slow/stop to see if anyone is following, then an impatient Escort captain zooms past you at lightspeed...

So really, the problem is lousy communication all around, and a lot of impatience with folks not even waiting long enough for anyone to type out a message and form some type of (incredibly basic) strategy. Good thing the game has built in voice chat. Or it would be except that no one bothers to use it...
I was going to say something similar to this.
My mains are Eng/Cruisers and tanks (with max threat). I never "hang back". It's my job to rattle the hornet's nest, and get in first. The only time I don't is when (usually) an escort full impulses past me into the fight.

Also OP... if you tested this in an Ody and a Bortas... do those characters have points in threat control? That's the only real way you could pull aggro reliably from Escorts, unless they are not trying to do damage. With your increased damage from tac abilities, and threat control, I could see you being able to hold threat against cruiser captains with only, say, 6pts in threat.
Just a thought.
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It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]

"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 765
# 22
06-26-2012, 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
It should. That's how it normally is in PvP and that is the gold standard for how the game should function and play optimally. By that, I mean primarily a healer.

If you want to do burst damage, use an escort.
This isn't PVP though and there is no "standard" play style in this game (one of the strengths of this game is not blindly adhering to an strict trinity standard). That might be how you prefer to play (which is fine), in which case you should try to form a premade group of like minded players if you want that kind of game experience.

My equally flippant remark is if you do not want to blow up so often fly an cruiser. Not an terribly helpful remark is it? As Happy and others have pointed out in this thread most people in PUGs do not communicate or form any kind of an plan in advance. It's completely unrealistic to expect everyone in this game to play the same way and have the same amount of game play experience.

Just trying to point out that PUGs can be an bad idea if you can't adapt to what you have to work with in the group or try to work out some kind of an plan.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 342
# 23
06-27-2012, 12:07 AM
I fly cruisers and I tank all mobs where possible without threat control, I will throw out heals when I can if the player is in range (most of the time they are just out of range), in turn I will heal myself so I can continue to tank them as long as possible; cause a dead player is not doing any damage.

I use power to weapons, sheilds and aux aswell as a red matter capacitor and the enhanced plasma manifold to keep my power levels maxed out as long as possible.

When it comes to movement speed here is a tip: swap to engine power stance and use your evasive, I guarantee you will be in the fights alot faster instead of putting around (granted there are times where thats on cooldown and I wished for the red alert to be just that much shorter)

Other then that I will put in chat what needs to be done next if i see there are those reading the chat, else I prefer to be in voice chat. i.e. in KA space at the start of the stf I state what side I will cover.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 24
06-27-2012, 12:21 AM
1 Escorts are FASTER and head to targets without waiting for the big boys
2 Escorts often are running comms silent (they don't or can't communicate with the fleet)
3 Escorts often disregard orders/mission directives or a group organised plan

But if you don't want to get blown to skev and back Don't leave your C+C cruiser
stay with it
Escort it

Escorts in pairs can work well
(Two escorts = 1 cruiser in survival terms)

When people are rezzing in at the start of a mission / stf /fleet action
Hold your position and cool your thrusters Until EVERYONE is active

Comm everyone "Hi" or "Anyone have a plan" works well

Do not END RUN the sats in mirror universe
Do not Start blowing away targets when only one person has rezzed in
and do not use the phrase "Loser go tank for me " or you WILL die

and Frankly if you don't want to be the man on point and the first to draw fire
Don't fly an escort
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 36
# 25
06-27-2012, 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera View Post
I never deliberately hold back when I fly a cruiser, however is it the cruiser holding back or the escorts not even trying to stay behind the cruiser?

People zone at different rates, at least some of the time the cruiser will come in slightly after the escorts. I see the equivalent in fantasy games such as EQ... dps engaging before the tank has agro....likely a similar issue. Give the cruiser an extra couple seconds to draw agro.
This is what I experience, it's like the anakin, obi vs dooku fight in aotc when anakin rushes in and promptly gets sizzled.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,213
# 26
06-27-2012, 01:10 AM
another reason cruisers usualy sit farther back is that their beam weaponry is efective at any range. cannons on the other hand loose strength at farther ranges. cruisers can engage earlier farther back while escorts need to get up close to attack.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
I run a cruiser and although i know the kind of players you're talking about, i've seen this happen with all kinds of class ship, and the behaviour isn't restricted to cruisers. It's not the type of ship, skills, boff powers you have . . it's the captain sitting in the chair, that likes to sit back while the team does all the hard stuff. I had a player in infected space elite whom just sat at the spawn point . . and didn't even fire a weapon, heal or even activate his/her engines . . although was happy to "Need" on all the loot.

As a cruiser captain, i like to get stuck into the battle, drawing aggro to give a damaged player a break from a pounding. I personally don?t keep Heals to myself, i heal others whenever the abilities are recharged and when needed . . if i have to heal myself . . i actively look around to see if i can share the heal . . since i'll be using it anyway on myself.

This thread would explain to me why i got a private message after an STF last night, saying "It was nice to play with someone who heals all the time" I thought nothing off it . . and wasn't too sure what he meant, since i thought most people would help their team mates out . . . but perhaps not . . i thought he's just been unlucky in PUGS.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 119
# 28
06-27-2012, 02:01 AM
I'm an escort captain and usually in STF's I just get stuck in right away.

Despite this I still got the same impression as the OP. So once I decided not to move and see what happened . . . . .

Nobody moved. . . for a good 30s, until I thought sod this and closed in.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 29
06-27-2012, 03:41 AM
they are waiting for the ranking cruiser to call targets probably

Chain of command
Carrier
Science cruiser
Cruiser
lock box weirdness
Escorts
Shuttles
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,391
# 30
06-27-2012, 08:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenkari View Post
another reason cruisers usualy sit farther back is that their beam weaponry is efective at any range. cannons on the other hand loose strength at farther ranges. cruisers can engage earlier farther back while escorts need to get up close to attack.

That's partially correct.


For one thing, getting close to things like cubes (above or below) means less torpedos you have to eat.

Another is that distance plays some factor in threat determination. A Cruiser will have an easier time holding aggro the closer they are to a target.


Lastly, while the drop off in damage for beam arrays is not as sharp as it is for Cannons - there is still drop off.

1km will be the range you will see the maximum effect for beam arrays.

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